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Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
Grimshawl
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:20 pm 
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I guess we just dont see eye to eye on how much a list need acomidate all other lists, I think Space Marines need just a litlle boost to their rules, or a unit changed slightly to help them out with large WEs, I think that its okay if all armies arent all exactly equall to every task, that to me is something that adds flavor and keeps individuality in the game, after all some forces are very good at certain things too.




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tneva82
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:22 am 
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Quote (dysartes @ 04 Nov. 2005 (00:10))
For example, there is no way I can please both yourself and tneva - you have polar opposite opinions on most issues.


However why should that worry you to begin with concidering I will not be using the list to begin with. So don't mind me, I will only have this list on field if following events happen:

a) there's another epic tournament(at most these happen once a year)
b) somebody decides to bring ATML list
c) we actually end up facing him.

So do what you wish, one game once a year isn't enough worry for me to worry about this list anymore.




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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:11 pm 
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Blarg, regarding your weapon comparison formula:  I think that part of your analysis was flawed.  A direct fire weapon's effectiveness increases with the square of the increase of the range.  I also agree that you seem to undervalue FF attacks.

Sorry about the other OT-ness.  What I would like to see is something along the lines of what can happen in 40k.  'I'm playing IG...will I see the infantry horde or the Armored Company, or something inbetween?'  That's the level of our pick-up game.  

How do you balance that against the 'Campaign list'?

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Flogus
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:13 am 
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In the Epic rulebook, the light plasma canon of the Warhound may fire with 2 dices (and slow loading in the next turn) or fire with only 1 dice on every turn.

Is this rule for low charged plasma shots tottaly went out with the AMTL list ?

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:10 pm 
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Flogus, no its still there.  The various plasma weapons are still Slow-Firing and can split the shots over turns if desired.
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Flogus
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:59 pm 
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My little feedback with light inferno cannons on Warhounds :

I played a 3000 pts vs orks (AC Warlord, AC Reaver, AP Reaver, Skitarris, 2 Warhounds with plasma & inferno).
Well ... light infernos don't worth a light vulcain cannon, even against orkish hordes. The flamer spray is so short that warhounds have to come very close to its target to hope hitting 3 or 4 units.
And inferno is AP4+/AC6+ vs AP3+/AC5+ for the vulcain.

Less range, less chance to hit, need to be very closed to target to hope the same number of units hitted.
I consider an arm transplatation on my Warhounds ;)

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:04 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 17 Nov. 2005 (13:11))
Blarg, regarding your weapon comparison formula: ?I think that part of your analysis was flawed. ?A direct fire weapon's effectiveness increases with the square of the increase of the range. ?I also agree that you seem to undervalue FF attacks.

Sorry about the other OT-ness. ?What I would like to see is something along the lines of what can happen in 40k. ?'I'm playing IG...will I see the infantry horde or the Armored Company, or something inbetween?' ?That's the level of our pick-up game. ?

How do you balance that against the 'Campaign list'?

First off, my apologies for my absence.  Real Life and my reduced enthusiasm kept me from replying.

OK.  Let me get this straight: as the range of the weapon increases the effect of range is squared.  So, if we have a weapon that has a range of "1" its effect on the result would be "1" while a weapon with a range of "2" would have an effect of "4" on the result.  "3" would be "9" and "4" would be "16," etc.  Well, that makes sense, actually.  My "Firepower Potential" equation was pretty much a measure of how much firepower could be placed over an area, and since area is typically a square function what you say makes sense.  At least, that's the assumption.

There are 2 arguments against your assertion: terrain and what everybody other than you and I think.

If the battlefield were completely devoid of terrain that blocked LOS then range would become exceptionally important and the number for range would be squared to account for its importance.  But since tournament, and scenario, games typically have LOS blocking terrain you start losing the importance of range.  The more terrain you have the less square footage of area that you can fire into.  Since terrain is so highly variable from game to game and player to player I just assumed that the effect of terrain would be to mitigate the importance of range down from a geometric progression to a linear function.  Since the intent of the formulas was to offer approximations for starting points I figured that it was a safe assumption pending playtest.

The other problem is that everybody else who has had anything constructive to say about the formula has downplayed the importance of range.  The feedback seems to be that if the range is over 60-90cm then anything over that is wasted ability.  I disagree, but then I've always been a sucker for ranged combat and not being seduced by the Cult Of The Powerfist.

By the way, what is the "OT-ness" that you mentioned?  I'm not familiar with that term.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:32 pm 
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OT = Off Topic
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:33 am 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 14 Nov. 2005 (19:50))

I've also found it can be challenging with Chaos Marines.  Basically, the only formation that's going to be really good at busting big WEs is Chosen with a Daemon Prince.  I've tried using lists with Greater Daemons, but they are simply too expensive to take as a contingency unit.


I was under the impression that the CSM had a fair amount of MW - even MW barrage weapons (or have they now gone from the list?). As well as a mean selection of Titans. Are you using these units much?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:18 pm 
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I've found their MW barrages (Decimators and Ferals) to be too short ranged to be effective against most big WEs.  They are simply outranged so far that they are usually pounded well before coming into range.

To be fair, I've mostly used them against IG, but trying them against multiple Supastompa mobz was also disastrous.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Initial AMTL v2.0 Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:20 pm 
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Blarg!  Good to have you back!

[major snippage]

Hmmm.  I'm going to repost the majorority of my reply on this in another thread, to keep our discussion from tying up this one.

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