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Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:41 pm
Posts: 276
Location: Southampton
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(Points costs) Looking closer at the list (and making some trial fleetlists, which I'll type up later after I try them all out), some ships are overcosted in comparison to the SM ships! (the SC's are way too cheap IMO, but I'll get to that in a bit.)
The Despoiler should be 410pts,
The Styx should be 280pts
The Mars should be increased to 265pts (i'll change these now!)
(Forgeships)The Forgeship needs more flavour and usefullness to be a viable option. So I'm going to add the following for playtesting: +1 Ld to reload, and may use it's repair dice in the endphase on friendly ships (within 10cm), if there a BM's in contact with either ship the repair dice are halved as normal. (i'll change this now!)
(SC cost) Strike Cruisers are too cheap, everyone knows it! But this has been ignored by SG mainly because of the inflexability of the SM fleet, as SC have to work in every role (jack of all trades, master of none).
But considering it's now been given LFR BC's to shoot as well as it's WB's, it has got a fair firepower: (vs 5+ armour BC's do 50% more damage and cause 3 times as many crits, they can also kill ordy on a 4+, so 3BC's =6Wb's (or a bit more). So in affect it can have a Str10 broadside against 5+ armour targets (and better against 6+ armour targets). That's not bad! Roughly the same as a Tyrant! (of course, it only gets one decent broadside!)
Carrying on the comparison with IN cruiers: Instead of Prow Torps it gets 2TH's, a fair trade! So it has the same firepower as an IN cruiser, but only to one side!
As a similar ship configuration compare it to a Dauntless:
replace the Prow Torps/lances with 2TH's.
Then Add 3BC's LFR, Add 6+ armour (the equivelent of double hits! except against armour ignoring weapons), Add 1 turret, amazing leadership, +2 to boarding actions, -1 to enemy hit and runs, +1 to teleport attacks. For +35pts (the cost of a sword) you get all that! Crazy!
BUT it does loose the +1D6 on AAF (this one D6 must be worth about 40pts!  ).
I would say a SC has the same survivablity as a Chaos cruiser (Murder) against a normal mix of weapons (and much better against ordnance). And a little less firepower (given the range differences and taking the 90* turn into consideration). So I'd place it at 155pts (or possibly 145pts on the outside) in comparison to a Murder if it had all the Chaos rules (the correct cost of a Training ship!?!?!?!?).
Now add SM Ld(+10%pts), +1 boarding(+5pts), +1 to H&R's(+10pts) -1 to enemy H&R's(+5pts). 195 (or 180 on the outside).
So I reckon that the Training vessel should cost 135pts, and the normal BTSC 195pts (taking 15pts of the TV's value).
And that normal SC's cost 180pts! (in a normal SM fleet).
Also compare the SC to the Battle Barge, or compare the BB to 3 SC's! The SC's cost 10pts less and get
better Ld (as they have 3 rolls),
'Slightly' more ordy(a TH worth),
the BB has better range of its WB's by 15cm,
SC's have +6 hits(+4 for what matters, as if there is only 1 hit left there is only 1 SC left!),
the BB has the same number of shields but they have to all be down before damage is counted,
the SC's can have a combined turret value of 4, (but the BB has 3 all the time),
The SC's have +5cm speed,
and 90* turns. All in all the SC's are much better as they can zip about the board doing the same or more than the BB! (this is quite similar to the 2xScythe vs Tombship argument! Scythes are better!)
Anyone think I'm crazy and missing an obvious flaw of the SC? (that's only one question by the way!)
Cheers,
RayB
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DON'T DATE ROBOTS!!!
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I take your point on the chaos phrasing, i'll remove that in a bit.