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AMTL
Legion 4	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:40 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Well as usual, we'll have to wait and see ...  And as Daf said and I have said previously, separate SM, Eldar, etc. lists don't count, IMO. I liked the SM1 and SM2 systems for different unit types within a specific army, otherwise it  is just fluff ...    While some core (Chaos and now 'Nids) armies "appear" to be "floundering" ...  If PDF is the way we're going to get new rules, editions, etc., so be it ... it will at least be cheaper ...    And of course I like the DoK models and look forward to the F/Orks (if they ever get released ?! ), and complete Tau & Kroot models (even if just F/W does them !) plus Necrons, etc. ... Here's to hoping ... in my experience, hope only leads to disappointment ...   "Always expect the worst, then when something good happens, you appreciate it more." - Mao   _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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vanvlak	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:42 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	"Always expect the worst, then when something good happens, you appreciate it more." - Mao     Good grief, in my old age I had to learn I share one common philosophy with the Chairman.... _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?

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Dwarf Supreme

Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:43 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11149 Location: Canton, CT, USA

Quote (vanvlak @ 22 2005 July,15:42) "Always expect the worst, then when something good happens, you appreciate it more." - Mao ? ? Good grief, in my old age I had to learn I share one common philosophy with the Chairman.... That sounds more like something Confucsius would say. I have to agree with dafrca; SG did waste a lot of time and resources getting army lists completed when it would have been better to concentrate on the core armies. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of army lists, but they should take a backseat to core army development. _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

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nealhunt	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:32 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	L4 and Daf:  I completely understand your point and I agree with part of it, but take issue with part of it. I don't think appreciable resources were diverted to the variant lists, with the exception of the Siege IG which had substantial new numbers of models.  The Feral Ork list needed only a handful (though they can't seem to get that done, either ).  The others needed none.  I also think that at least some of the variant lists provide substantially different game experiences (but not all). In any case, I would expect 3 new races to be released in the next year, 4 if you count CSM and L&D as separate (like SM/IG are). 7-8 races over a total of 13 variant lists in a matter of 3-4 years seems like a pretty good clip for producing new material to me.  It's as fast or faster than they come out with new material for 40K. _________________ Neal
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dafrca	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	Quote (nealhunt @ 22 2005 July,11:32) I don't think appreciable resources were diverted to the variant lists, with the exception of the Siege IG which had substantial new numbers of models. ?The Feral Ork list needed only a handful (though they can't seem to get that done, either ). ? Neil, I have a feeling this is one of those areas were you and I will just need to agree to disagree. For the amount of costs to produce new molds for the Siege IG, the Chaos minis could have been done. For the effort to release those "side lists" they could have gotten a lot further on Tyranid etc. Also, there is no reason, if they were serious about having Epic be a success, that the minis that already existed should not have been available. Why cut off all Eldar or Chaos until a list comes out? You point out 40k does not move as fast, well 40k does not lock away all races and minis until the new updated lists come out either. The fact is, a slower pace is somewhat acceptable when minis are available. Someone who became interested could have started with Eldar and played the playtest lists if they could have still gotten minis from the start. But became disinterested when they could not. Lost opportunity? What about Chaos or Bugs now? Neil, they have not done a great job in either scheduling or in missionary work. You are free to disagree, that is the fun of being different people. I just can not agree to the idea that they have done a good job or that they are moving as fast as they could or should. dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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nealhunt

Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:30 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Neil, they have not done a great job in either scheduling or in missionary work. Oh, I completely agree on this, actually.  I think it has been simply mediocre.  Especially considering the boom when EA was released, I believe it would have been a solid business move to divert more resources to rapid development. After reading your post I think you are probably also correct about what it took to get new variant models into production versus the effort to refurbish an existing product line.  I think the main problem there is that the new variant stuff was already in the pipeline before the reorganization and cut in resources. _________________ Neal

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dafrca	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	Quote (nealhunt @ 22 2005 July,14:30) I think the main problem there is that the new variant stuff was already in the pipeline before the reorganization and cut in resources. Good point, timing is everything.   dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:34 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11149 Location: Canton, CT, USA	What I'm wondering is, if GW is planning on re-releasing old minis for some armies, why not put them back in production as soon as they can? Wouldn't this help boost interest in epic?   _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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Legion 4	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	All good points, but as usual ... we'll have to wait and see !  It'd be nice to have Chaos (CSM & L&D [ie., Cultists] ) and 'Nids by '05's end ... _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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CyberShadow	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:57 am
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9350 Location: Singapore	This is something that I dont understand either. It has already been stated that troops such as the Tyranids and Chaos will simply be rereleased plastic third edition sprues... so, where are they. What possible benefit is there of not releasing them? I think, if they timed it correctly, they could ensure a very healthy couple of quarters for Epic sales on these two or three releases alone, with no real expense. I would love to see both of these sprues out now - I want to start building forces so that, when the lists are completed, I can already have a force ready to go - and also get on board with the playtesting. As it is, I am holding off simply because I am not entirely convinced that they WILL be rereleased, and I want to know if my troops are limited in numbers before I decide what to do with them. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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dafrca	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:22 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	CyberShadow, I think you are talking about the very issue I have. Why close the archive to begin with? What did it hurt to sell those minis? If there were particular SKUs that were not selling, fine maybe kill them off. But the ones that were, or the ones that would be needed in a basic starting army? Those should still be for sale. There are other odd issues, but I will leave those for another rant. dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:37 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11149 Location: Canton, CT, USA	Quote (dafrca @ 24 2005 July,16:22) CyberShadow, I think you are talking about the very issue I have. Why close the archive to begin with? What did it hurt to sell those minis? If there were particular SKUs that were not selling, fine maybe kill them off. But the ones that were, or the ones that would be needed in a basic starting army? Those should still be for sale. There are other odd issues, but I will leave those for another rant. dafrca I can understand not selling archived versions of minis currently in production, but why not sell old ones which will never be reproduced? If the molds still exist and people are willing to pay archive prices, how could it hurt GW's bottomline?   _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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Tiny-Tim	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:30 pm
Hybrid Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm Posts: 4893 Location: North Yorkshire	Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 25 2005 July,14:37) If the molds still exist and people are willing to pay archive prices, how could it hurt GW's bottomline? ? Trust me they don't exist any more. I went on a tour of the factory last year and our guide had great pleasure in telling me that she knew the molds (for Metal castings) were gone because it was her responsibility to destroy them. Can't say about the plastics they are produced on a different site now. Tim _________________ _________________ www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
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nealhunt

Post subject: AMTL Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:41 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Why close the archive to begin with? What did it hurt to sell those minis? Storage space for each individual part, additional sku numbers and warehouse locations for each part (more stuff for order pullers to deal with and screw up), added cost of specialty runs (which I don't think were ever really factored into the bitz prices), wasted material based on only certain parts from a mold was selling, etc.. Basically, it added a lot of logistical headache for little or no profit to GW. Not that I like the decision.  I think it sucks. _________________ Neal

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Legion 4	Post subject: AMTL Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:15 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Tragic ... that the molds were destroyed ...   _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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