Hey there,

I am currently evaluating Guard lists and looked up other lists on the EUK Championship. I was surprised that NO ONE who goes for competetive play (more W than L or D) uses them. Why? I think they are pretty bad ass because:

- Armour Save more than nil
- Decent 5+/5+ gun
- Rocket Pods with Disrupt
- Speedy for last turn Objective Grabbing
- Scout

I think they are very good at preparing Assaults due to the Disrupt and high speed. At Supporting Fire they throw in 12 dice, which is not too shabby.
I see the similarities with Mechanised Formations (more dice in FF, more long range Firepower, core formation but less speed, less armour on the inf)
What is the deal breaker for these guys?

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but.... I use them and I try to be competetive...

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Just some guy

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on a more serious note, check out the vanaheim lists, they tell a different story....

I love em but generally find mechanised infantry a better choice as when it comes to epic, I generally find chucking more dice with crappy troops is generally better than a few dice with excellent troops, they've performed well when I've used them at tournaments, in fact my record with lists using them is 2-2-2 which while not excellent, is certainly good enough for me IIRC both the draws were of the 'VP win' variety

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I think the issue is probably that at 350 points they are just under the cost of another company, which adds more support slots, and just over the cost of a warhound.

I'm not saying they need a points drop, they are about right IMO. They just compete with other stuff that players favour more in general.

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^^Exactly this

They basically do what a mech infantry company does but they're less robust and take up support slots, if I had 350 points to spare I'd probably take vultures over stormtroopers for the AT shooting then add some griffons or ogryns

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Yes I think they are great, they just happen to be support formations. That reduces down the number of builds you would want to take them with since you'll need 3 companies anyway. If you're going for reg HQ, mech, tanks as your companies then you're not likely to prioritise storm troopers above the other shooty toys.

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I have used them multiple times recently. However I didn't take valkyries, but simply send the big toy soldiers on recon mission. (on foot, 200 points)

8 scout units are perfect to block down deployment zone (scattering them in a very loose line), and later in game they are cool to hold all of your 3 objectives.
Their FF4+ are very likely to do some help, if an assault takes place in your territory.
Last but not least, if you use them to just completely hold position, you don't need to worry about activating them, as they can still complete their task.

The key here is the focus on their mission: Securing the 3 objectives on your territory!*
They shouldn't move out (unless their mission is replaced by other formation), attack or anything. All you need to do is to fill the gaps for partial casualities.

*For me it adds more flavour to the fluff, as storm troopers never go into battles in ad-hoc. They are always sent in with detailed and explicit missions.

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I've used them once in 2012 in my Minervans list. For Tank lists there are other options to take. I've tryed to replace the arty batteries with Vultures and Valkyries. Should be a scenario like the battle of hannut in the Westfeldzug 1940. Tanks supported only by Flyers and some infantry.

Don't played very well. Arty is mere vital for Tank Legions because of counter-battery fire. And Minervans have Salamanders for scouting duties. Maybe I'd field them at 4 or 5k. But at 3k not. Altough maybe I should try it.