Hi,

I've managed to get one single solitary game of EpicA in so far but, despite my opponent having an engage heavy Craftworld Eldar army at no point did any model ever come in base contact. Lots of Firefights (infact basically everything he did ended up as a clipping firefight)

Now, it could have been an artifact of the forces and players but it seems quite tough to get something focused on close combat to actually do so. You've got to start in line of sight of the enemy, have to make your single move and end in base to base contact which seems like you've go to expose yourself to the enemy formation(s) unless you've got some safe terrain to start in.

So you've got to, on the prior turn, move to get close to the enemy, hope they don't move scouts in between you and the target, move the target, etc. and they don't blast marker you or damage the formation to the point where the engage is likely to fail and you've then got to sit there for a turn before you could make your engage.

Now most of that is true for normal Engagements as well, but in those you've got the extra 15cm buffer of firefights and plenty of units out there have Infiltrate making it easier to close that distance.

So, how do the close combat specialist forces (orcs, dark eldar, tyranids, etc.) actually get themselves into base to base contact with an enemy?

How does the rest of the army support these units in their endeavour?

You dont have to start in line of sight to engage the enemy.... just within engage range...

Tyranids have a quicker base move and numbers..... orks can fly in in landas, or sit in battlewagons or fortresses for the bonus engage range + 5cm dismount, dark eldar can do all these things and portal in too.... terminators can fly in thunderhawks.... aspects can use vampires, wave serpents and webway...

I'll say now that ff is generally a better way to engage, but there are plenty of cc options, a few more games may show them to you

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Just some guy

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Everything Kyuss said and I'll add teleport and planet falling to the bag of tricks. Also don't discount the effects of getting the enemy to respond to YOUR movements. Suddenly that extra formation isn't following their own battle plan but starting to follow yours, allowing you to start setting the pace.

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Wait, you don't need line of sight to Engage? And can dismount?

Can you dismount on a countercharge too?

Yes to all three questions

Except if there are 2 enemy units already in base contact with the vehicle (per DC of the vehicle), in which case the exits are blocked and transported infantry must stay inside.

Absolutely. Though having infantry in vehicles is normally risky in Epic as if the vehicle is destroyed the infantry have to make their save (or a 6+ if they don't have one) or die.

Hmm.

I was considering adding 2 Ogryns+Chimerae to an IG Mechanized co to give the formation some threat if engaged. Dismount everyone else but leave the ogryns in their vehicles so they can do the 10cm+5cm dismount to get the Ogryns engaged when someone tries to clip you at 15cm.

Yeah that's a good one to try, worth it as you can always get the ogryns up front to soak up hits with their excellent 3+ saves even if you can't get them into BTB contact

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Just some guy

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Yes it would work, although the ogryns can probably still be avoided in a firefight. But mech inf are pretty good defensively in firefight anyway - in cover at least.

Overall, yes having infantry sat in their transports is risky, but bear in mind that it is often necessary if you want to engage the next turn. Sometimes it's a good mood anyway, since it denies AP targets and the transports may have better armour.

Another tip is simply to move the formation that will be engaging as your last activation of the turn, leaving no opportunity for the enemy to move, retaliate etc. Easier said than done and you aren't guaranteed to win strategy next turn, but the later in the turn the better. Linked with this is the overall strategy of having more activations than your opponent. Unfortunately that's harder for guard than other armies due to their rigid list structure and expensive core formations, but they do have plenty of formations that are happy to activate at the beginning of the turn without being "wasted" activations (ie artillery).

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Agreed with Kyrt, also having several formations move into engage range at the end of the turn can mean that even if you lose the strategy roll (almost a given with guard) your opponent can't react to all of them before you get to activate

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Imperials and Eldar really tend to work best with supporting elements for engagement so you can maximize your worth for the points sink in the formations. For instance, Steel Legion Mechanized company moves and fires at the target in close range. Move a Warhound up and engage and if you've been able to position yourself correctly, that's a potential 21 support shots in FF for the war hound. That's going to put out some serious hurt. Similar things can happen with say a Leman Russ company moving and softening up the target then engaging with a Mech Company.

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I've been finding that if my IG Companies get engaged they break. Could be four bikes and a thunderhawk, four teleporting terminators, a formation of aspect warriors, guardians in wave serpents, whatever. If they engage a 4-600pt (depending on upgrades like hydras, etc) formation (infantry co, mech inf, supreme commander, etc.) they break the formation. The only time this doesn't happen is if the dice come up something weird.

I've tried hiding deep in cover (which worked against bikes but the rolling there was crazy), tried shielding the infantry behind the chimeras to get saves and firefights rather than CC.

So. Seeing as the opponent will only proactively engage if they've engineered a scenario in which they have the advantage (clipping, combined engages, teleport or drop down and engage from an angle where the formation is weak, etc.)

How do I prevent my opponent from engineering these scenarios? Or discourage them from attempting the engagements?

'Cos right now I'm considering just keeping my core formations as far away from the enemy as possible, trying to find some upgrade with a range >45cm (3 leman russ for their battlecannons I guess, but that's really expensive) so I can plink away and place a blast marker and then use them to seize an objective during turn 3. Which seems a massive waste of something that costs 400+pts when a troop of sentinels could have done the same.

It is tough, but then this is a key unit for you opponent to destroy if they have any chance, he see why they are doing so hard at them. Try to screen them with scouts and protect flanks with other units - stick together - then counter on your own terms. weight of numbers should then pull them thought against most things if you call the shots.