Hi

Wondering how to construct an effective Krieg army list. A game is coming up soon where I will play against 4000 pts. nids and thinking about playing a Krieg army. If all else fails I may do regular guard or SM instead.

My question is how to do a list that is effective. Epic Armageddon is all about grabbing objectives. A Krieg list can be very static. And it is very tempting to get 2 times trenches and lots of infantry and earthshakers. But how to get those coveted objectives then?

Also if you purchase gorgons for your krieg army will the enemy not just target those instead of your troops in the trenches? Since you can't really give them cover?

I was thinking drills and rough riders could be a good way to grab objectives, but rough riders would probably be targeted just because of that.

So those of you with experience in this, how would you go about fielding a Krieg list?

bonus question: Which heavy tanks is best against nids. I am thinking baneblade can dish out a lot of AT or AP shots. Or Stormblade?

EDIT: I am thinking the list below could be used as a static gunline with the exception of the one infantry company with gorgons which could operate more forward, the rough riders as well for objective hunting and the heavy tanks could maybe push ahead down the middle.
The earthshakers ensure that he needs to move ahead with their 120 cm indirect barrages.
Also do you think I should have two earthshaker artillery companies?

Toying around with a list like this - which maybe lack some macharius or leman russ tanks?
(I haven't checked if the point values are still valid, so this is just to exemplify my thinking in a quickly made list)

Death Korps of Krieg / Death Korps of Krieg 3900

Death Korps Regimental HQ 400
Death Korps Supreme Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry

Death Korps Infantry Company 425
Death Korps Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry
2xDeath Korps Gorgon Siege Transporter

Death Korps Infantry Company 300
Death Korps Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry

Death Rider Company 250
12xDeath Korps Rough Riders

Artillery Support Company 600
9xEarthshaker Platform

Deathstrike Silo 250
Deathstrike Missile Silo

Flak Battery 125
3xHydra Platform

Medusa Battery 275
3xMedusa Platform
3xGun Emplacement

Medusa Battery 275
3xMedusa Platform
3xDeath Korps Trojan

Super-Heavy Tank Company 500
3xBaneblade

Trenchworks 100
80cm of Trenches plus 4 Bunkers.

Trenchworks 100
80cm of Trenches plus 4 Bunkers.

Thunderbolt Squadron 150
2xThunderbolt Fighter-Bomber

Heavy Squadron 150
Marauder Heavy Bomber

I personally like the offensive style, ie not at all "static". 3 coys in gorgons is pretty hard to deal with and you just send them up the field threatening the objectives.

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Yeah krieg companies in trenches are a waste, can't shoot or move effectively and they're easily clipped, the list was built around infantry mounted in gorgons, one of the most potent engagement formations in the game

Stormswords are the tank of choice against infantry hordes, 3 templates of ignore cover + disrupt barrage, backed up by twin heavy bolters and ignore cover flamers

Don't forgrt also that your gorgons can lob out barrages too

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I see why trenches are a waste in the current rules. Esp. since infantry in the trenches are unable to shoot heavy weapons. And you can't even entrench tanks a get a benefit. Fire support teams are anti-personnal mostly (AT6+).
I was kinda hoping someone had some input that proved me wrong. As I would love the idea of playing with entrenched Krieg. Not only is it fluffy, but I have tons of bunkers and defense lines (count as trench) and would love to put it to use..

Another thing: I wonder how effective offensive Krieg in Gorgons would be against a charging Tyranid horde. Sounds a bit like rushing to your death :p

EDIT: Maybe engineer heavy for digging up around the board (seem a tad expensive) and a lot of fliers (Nids seems to be weak against fliers)? I wonder if Thunderbolts or Marauders are better for this task... I know Marauders are bombers, but still...

If youa re looking for a defensive siege list, try Barans. Even though everyone whinges about how boring they are, I actually quite like them.

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krieg were developed pretty much specifically to be the opposite of the baran siegemasters, I agree with novemberrain, if you want to play a defensive list, the siegemasters are the way forward

Gorgon-mounted infantry are awesome, three companies would be great at chewing through a nid force, you start with a unit count of 26 and the first 6 hits are going on the reinforced armour of the gorgons, you'll also have a commissar, so with your arty prepping, you're starting anywhere from +3 to +5 up on combat resolution, and you put out 26+1MW attacks, which will do a lot of hurt to most infantry formations, you're also equally good at CC or FF which means nids swarming into BTB are no better off....

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This is mostly true and quite situational.
The FAQ clarification on War Engines barging friendly infantry aside (ie, they can't do it) has hampered the ability of the Gorgons to soak up the first 6 hits.
This was necessary to stop this exact situation.
This formation that was designed to be an attrition force (20 stands with no armour save) was suddenly almost always guaranteed of 6x 4+ reinforced armour saves in engagements...
That is simply not on.

So remember that infantry in base contact with an enemy unit cannot be moved at all by a charging/counter charging Gorgon. The Gorgon has to either be able to move completely over the friendly infantry or move around it (towards the nearest enemy).

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26? There are 20 infantry, 2 gorgons. Last is fire support?

What do you mean by over the infantry Onyx?

So each Gorgon soak up 3 hits but only if they naturally can move to the front.

20 Infantry + 2x 3DC war engines = 26 dice

Over the infantry means exactly what it says. A war engine that is counter charging cannot move in any way a friendly infantry stand that is in base contact with an enemy unit.
A counter charging war engine must be able to move completely over the friendly stand or move around it.
This will be very hard for Gorgons as they only have a 5cm counter charge. There are other situations where it would be easier (Ork Battle Fortresses in a Boyz formation for example) with war engines that can move 30cm (and get a 10cm counter charge).

Each Gorgon will soak up 3 hits first as long as they are the nearest unit to the enemy. If there are many units in base to base with the enemy, then the defender places the hits as he chooses (meaning it's the defenders choice if the Gorgons receive the hits before the armourless infantry... a no brainer ).

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Based on my own eUK Krieg army, what about something like this?

Not sure about the Macharius to be honest, but 4k gives room for them and they do provide some great range fire.

Incompertus, 4000 POINTS
Death Korps of Krieg (NetEA Tournament Pack 2013)
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REGIMENTAL HQ [525]
Death Korps Supreme Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

INFANTRY COMPANY [425]
Death Korps Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

INFANTRY COMPANY [425]
Death Korps Commander, 19 Death Korps Infantry units, Gorgon Siege Transporters (2 Gorgons)

DEATH RIDER COMPANY [250]
12 Death Korps Rough Rider units

DEATHSTRIKE SILO [250]
Death Korps Deathstrike Missile Silo

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Shadowsword

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON [200]
Shadowsword

HEAVY SUPPORT BATTERY [125]
3 Hydra or Heavy Anti-Aircraft Platform, 3 Trojans

HEAVY SUPPORT BATTERY [125]
3 Hydra or Heavy Anti-Aircraft Platform, 3 Trojans

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

DEATH RIDER SCOUT PLATOON [150]
6 Death Korps Rough Rider units (with 'scout' ability)

HEAVY TANK PLATOON [350]
2 Macharius Tanks, Macharius Command Tank

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Thanks Steve for clarification.
And thanks MrGonzo for the list. Looks interesting!

Are you keeping the shadow swords and warhounds separate for activation and deployment purposes?
Also aren't the baneblade better against nids?

Shadowswards are awesome against everything; in this particular case sniping the nasty bio war engines or 4+RA carnifexs etc. After that, Stormswords with all their Ignore Cover and disrupt are going to be better than Baneblades. In fact, I'd take Stormswords instead of Macharius.

Good points.
Maybe sacrificing the Macharius and death strike and get an artillery company with earthshakers... with 120 cm range they can still support an advance?

How about this?

Death Korps of Krieg / Death Korps of Krieg 4000

Death Korps Regimental HQ 525
Death Korps Supreme Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry
2xDeath Korps Gorgon Siege Transporter

Death Korps Infantry Company 550
Death Korps Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry
2xDeath Korps Gorgon Siege Transporter
3xHellhound

Death Korps Infantry Company 500
Death Korps Commander
19xDeath Korps Infantry
4xDeath Korps Support Squad
2xDeath Korps Gorgon Siege Transporter

Artillery Support Company 600
9xEarthshaker Platform

Death Rider Scout Platoon 150
6xDeath Korps Rough Riders

Death Rider Scout Platoon 150
6xDeath Korps Rough Riders

Flak Battery 125
2xHydra Platform
Heavy AA Platform
3xDeath Korps Trojan

Super-Heavy Tank Platoon 200
Shadowsword

Super-Heavy Tank Platoon 200
Shadowsword

Warhound Titan 275
Warhound Titan

Warhound Titan 275
Warhound Titan

Thunderbolt Squadron 150
2xThunderbolt Fighter-Bomber

Heavy Squadron 150
Marauder Heavy Bomber

Heavy Squadron 150
Marauder Heavy Bomber