I have recently moved to the southern part of Sweden and am attending a local tournament this Saturday. I have no idea how competitive the lists are in this region so I want list that isnt rock hard, but still competitive and fun to play with.

I also want to try the mounted guardian/farseer unit as I have never played it before. What do you think about the following? I feel a bit naked without my Revenant titans (that I always play with) and I am unsure about the Serpent Mounted Aspect warriors. I could swap that unit for a Warp Spider unit in a Vampire. Another thought is to swap it for a Warp Spider unit, remove the bombers and add my Revenants... but perhaps its time to grow up, lose the training wheels and skip the titans .


3000 POINTS
Biel-Tan Craftworld (NetEA v4.0)
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ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [350]
8 Swooping Hawk, 2 Exarch

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [325]
Exarch, 8 Shining Spears

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [575]
4 Dire Avenger, 1 Fire dragon, 3 Striking Scorpion, Autarch, 4 Wave Serpent

GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350]
Farseer, 4x Wave Serpents, 4 Guardians, 3 Heavy Weapon Platform

RANGER TROUPE [100]
4 Ranger

WINDRIDER TROUPE [200]
6 Jetbike

WAR WALKER TROUPE [200]
6 War walkers

SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Prism

SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

PHOENIX BOMBERS [400]
3x Phoenix Bombers

AVATAR WITH COURT OF THE YOUNG KING [0]

You never get too old for Titans!

I'd add an Exarch here; The +1 CR is golden.

Same.

I always bring a Vyper or two in my Jetbike troupe; It's very useful for laying an occasional prep blast marker.

If you don't have anything to screen, I don't think you need these.

I'd probably trade these for nightspinners; The disrupt barrage is very good for prep fire.

I've always felt Phoenixes were too expensive in 3K games; I'd swap these for Nightwings, who can do much the same against ground targets, and are better at air superiority. The Phoenix brings more killing power, of course, but your main offensive units should be aspects and guardians, performing FF engagements, anyway.

Looking forward to hearing how you fare in the tournament! Do post battle reports, if possible, they are always a good read.

Thanks for the comments. I really like my Phoenix Bombers so I think I let them stay in. I often find them very useful reaching hard to get targets with good AT-fire.

But I will tweak the list with using your other suggestions by:

- Removing the War walkers and replacing them with Night spinners
- Adding a Vyper to the windrider formation
- Adding another exarch the Shining spears formation

I really would like another 25p for an Exarch to the Serpent formation as well, but since I dont want to replace the Bombers I just dont have the spare points. Hopefully they are powerful enough to win engagements with the second inspirer.

I think 2 exarchs are pretty much mandatory for any aspect formation, it might be worth swapping a scorpion stand for an extra fire dragon, the extra MW hit will come in handy and you can still BTB the nasty FF units with the scorpions

I'd drop the heavy weapons from the guardians, the formation is for assault and engage and the worse FF value of the heavy weapons will hurt them here, unmounted as a blitz guard fine, but the stock formation is awesome and needs no fiddling!

also probably worth putting the autarch in the spears, having the supreme commander as the BTS just makes them even more of a target

I also respectfully disagree with SpeakerToMachines, dropping one of your falcon formations for night spinners leaves you very light on air cover, especially since you're not using nightwings, phoenix bombers can intercept, but they suck at it and then you can't ground attack with them.... I'd keep a minimum of two FMS

I'd possibly look at including a void spinner, it gives you an alpha strike unit and makes it difficult for the opponent to hide, also very useful counter-battery fire against guard and other artillery heavy forces

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I know that the HW-platforms are somewhat sub-par, but I dont have the extra stands available. I usually use my guardians as a defensive formation so I will have to manage with the platforms for now.

Void spinner might be a good idea, but I have a hard time removing stuff at it is. Its a good suggestion to move the Autarch to the Spears though. I will do that.

The Falcon formation I suggested dropping had Fire Prisms, not Firestorms.

I find that 1x Firestorms and 1x Nightwing is adequate AA; without Nightwings I'd agree that you're a bit light.



Indeed. Personally, I don't have a Voidspinner, so I can't speak from experience, but I'm in no doubt that they're much better than Nightspinners, even factoring their cost.

Honestly, I like the list for the most part. I don't believe you need two Exarchs per Aspect, although you will want them. If I were to criticize one thing, it would be to place two Exarchs in with the Shining Spears. Those things are dynamite and can successfully hunt and break Warhound pairs and Leman Russ formations.

Other critiques:
With such an infantry-heavy list, I would bring a Wraithgate. 50 points.
Add Exarchs to max out the other Aspects. 25 + 25 points.
Lose the Rangers to make up the difference.
Can't recall but I don't think you can bring the Heavy Weapon platforms on the Wave Serpents. Double check that!

This leaves you with 9 activations; a bit light but you can make up for it with clever tactics. If you really want 10 activations (and there are good arguments for having 10+ with the Eldar) you could scrounge 50 points from someplace, nix the Wave Serpents from one formation, and replace it with a Storm Serpent. That gives you another Wraithgate and tremendous turn 1 range to reach out and smash isolated formations. Double with the Storm Serpent, fire and place a blast marker on an enemy formation, retain with Shining Spears and annihilate the target formation. With your Storm Serpent at the 15cm mark, 50cm for movement, plus 35cm of Shining Spear movement, that is 100cm of range for close-combat assaulting. Not too shabby. Just food for thought.

I disagree that War Walkers are unnecessary. They are my second favorite formation in the Eldar list! The lance shot makes them impossible for reinforced armor to ignore and they will be magnets for enemy fire - exactly what you want.

Your Phoenix Bombers are a good purchase. They should be able to survive moderate flak with a 5+RA. Best targets are mixed formations of AP and AT.

Let us know what you ultimately select and how you did.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Thanks for all the comments. Good advice all around. I have made some changes to the list and this is what I will play on saturday:

AVATAR WITH COURT OF THE YOUNG KING [0]

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [550]
4 Dire Avenger, 2 Exarch, 4 Wave Serpent, 2 Striking Scorpion, 2 Fire Dragon

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [325]
8 Swooping Hawk, Exarch

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400]
8 Shining Spear, Autarch, Exarch

GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350]
Farseer, 4x Wave Serpents, 4 Guardians, 3 Heavy weapon platforms

RANGER TROUPE [100]
4 Ranger

WINDRIDER TROUPE [200]
5 Jetbike, 1 Vyper

NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3x Night Spinners

SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

SWORDS OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm

PHOENIX BOMBERS [400]
3x Phoenix Bombers

I was considering both the Storm Serpent and the Voidspinner, but points restraints made me skip them both in the end. I really like the final list. It has a bit of everything but is still focused on setting up good FF-engagements. I will try to use the Nightspinners aggressively and see how it goes. Thanks to all who gave me valuable input.

Final thoughts on your list - guard your falcons with your life. Lose them and your anti-tank abilities are going to go south in a hurry. Remember that you can use your Night Spinners as regular shots too. Shining Spears should be your hammer, but when presented with few targets they can also be your spear. They are great at clipping and have a decent firefight; prep your target formation with a BM and you'll be going in with at least a 3 pip advantage on your assaults (including exarch and autarch), 4 if you can avoid BMs yourself. If presented with a Leman Russ formation or SHTs that you can fully CC, stride boldly into them. Most people think that is insane, but a prepped heavy armor will fall to the Shining Spears. Your 35cm consolidation will have your victors speeding away before your opponent can retaliate.

GOOD LUCK! And happy hunting!

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Looks solid to me. Good luck with the tournament.

Btw: where is the tournament held? If you are living in the deep south of Sweden close to Copenhagen, you could investigate the (growing?) epic environment in DK.

We have tournaments and events 2-3 times a year and Swedes are very much welcome.

Take a closer look at: http://www.powerfist.dk/forum/index.php?board=400.0

/Jacob

Jacob,

that is a good tip. Thanks a lot. I am living in Ystad which is only an hour away from Copenhagen if I take the train, so I will definately check out the tournaments in Copenhagen.

/Johan

Hello all!

A brief update. We ended up six players in the end and I had three fun games against really great opponents. The first game was against Space Marines and my opponent had abysmal luck with teleport blast marker and activation rolls. When terminators dont get to engage, they cannot really do much against Eldars. In a last gamble he flew a TH through the air cover of both my Falcon units and it got shot down. It ended turn three with a 3-1 victory for me.

The second game was against Imperial Guard and was very exciting and tense. My opponent neutralized one of my Falcon units early on which made it an uphill struggle for me and I didnt accomplish much during the first turn. But with the last activation of the turn I swooped the Shining spears into position for an assault on his Russ company. I won the initiative, but a blast marker on the Russes, retained and charged with the Shining Spears. The armoured company broke was almost wiped and I could regroup behind cover. That changed the course of the battle and I managed to squeeze out a turn three win.

Third battle was against Orks and it was one of those battles nothing went the right way. I faced a really cool army. He had:

2 Warbands (normal and large)
2 Kults of speed (bikes in one and scorchas in one)
1 Large blitz brigade with Zzaps
1 Normal blitz brigade with Zzap
1 Stormboy unit
1 Stompa unit with Supa stompa
1 Gargant
3 Fighta bommas

From the get go I was intimidated by how he got a lot of pricey stuff in his army and still had as many activations as me. Unfair to say the least! I tried to maneuver into position for clipping charges but he played smart and kept his fast stuff as a mobile reserve while advancing with his Gargand/Stompas/Warbands. Due to a mistake I lost one of my Falcon units early and the critical moment came when I teleported in my Swooping Hawks in the second turn. My plan was to engage his large Blitz brigade, win and put the hawks in a supporting position to engage his bikes if I retained. Disaster struck when I didnt win the initiative and I saw my Hawks evaporate in a Soopa cloud. I never recovered from that and the battle ended 3-1 for the Orks.

Thoughts:

- I really liked the army but I need better anti-tank capabilities. Perhaps the Reavers need to get back in?
- The Night Spinners were amazing. I kept them out of harms way all three battles and they performed very well.
- The expensive Wave Serpent/aspect warrior unit was good, but not amazing. I think I will go back to my old set-up with 8 Warp Spiders in a Vampire. It just feels more solid to me (probably since I've used it more)
- The Guardians in Wave serpents were very good. I dont think I will go back to my old formation which was foot slogging and reinforced with wraithguard. It was much easier to get good use of the Avatar with this set-up

Questions:

- Is it possible to kill a Gargant? That freaking monster dominated the battle line.
- How would you fight an Ork army such as the one I faced?

In short, it is possible to kill a Gargant, but you have to have the right tools.
However, you will have to throw a large part of your army into this strategy, and if you are unsuccessfull, the rest of the Orks are likely to win the game - which is in part the strategy behind Titan based armies.

Effectively you have to shoot it lots with artillery and then possibly consider an assault with the Shining spears commanding the jet bikes. If you know that titans are likely to be on the prowl, change the list to have 2-3x Cobras as well as 2-3x Night Spinners, swapping the Phoenix Bombers for Night wings and shuffling other points and formations to try to get 13-14 activations. The strategy is to out-activate the Orks, threatening with Artillery, leaving the Cobras to last when they march at the Gargant to get into 30 cm of the beast and trying to have several alternative threats. Then you cross your fingers and hope to get the initiative and sustain with the Cobras. Otherwise keep plugging away with the Night Spinners to wear down the armour to the point where you can assault it. Certainly not foolproof, but fun if it comes off - - -

I've killed Gargants in the past when I regulary used to run a Phantom Titan, supported by Aspects. Properly epic stuff *

TBH though the best way to beat one is to avoid it, concentrate on the other fms in the army and then when you have the activation advantage use your hit and run to shoot at it and then double onto objectives and breaking it with blast markers. Void Spinners are especially good for this as they get 4 disrupt shots each at it.