The Minervans are a tricky list to use - their armour is superb but they suffer from such low activation numbers and vulnerability to CC and teleport attacks. Here is my attempt at making a Minvervan list that has multiple screening vs CC and teleport AND pushes the activation count up even in a small game size.

10 Thunderer, Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra)
10 Thunderer, Flak Support (Hydra)

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
WARHOUND TITAN [275]

That's 8 activations at 2000pts (actually I don't think minervans can go higher than that without using aircraft). The price is the fact that these are thunderers rather than russes, but before you throw them out for lack of range remember they are harder to kill than any other LR (due to thick rear armour) and still carry a demolisher cannon. Dealing with 20 of them behind 4 scout screens would be challenging for any opponent.

Here is the same list done slightly differently (probably more versatile), dropping one activation to gain a mix of tanks (the goal being to have Thunderers take the first hits while Russes are slightly back from the front of the formation).


7 Thunderer, 3 Leman Russ, Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra)
8 Thunderer, 2 Leman Russ, Flak Support (Hydra)

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
WARHOUND TITAN [275]


And finally, here is the same list done with Super Heavies instead.

3 Shadowsword, Supreme Commander, Flak Support (Hydra)
3 Baneblade

SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]
SALAMANDER SCOUT PLATOON [100]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]
WARHOUND TITAN [275]

The last one is still 7 activations despite containing 8 war engines at 2000pts. It has lower anti air, but still has enough scouts to screen the vehicles pretty well.

What do you think, worth experimenting with? Could your army handle that sort of armour at 2k?

Yes, but that's one of the advantages of playing Minervans.

Remember activation count is only half the equation. Roughly half of your activations in those lists may as well not exist. Salamanders are better than Sentinels, but they are not effective combat formations. One of the Achilles heels of the original SW Biel Tan list was that the three unit formations are incredibly easy to break. A single hit on a [basic] Salamander formation almost guaruntees they will break. A 6+ armor save means the unit is almost cretainly going to be destroyed, and 1BM for fire and another for a kill breaks the now two unit formation.

Thunderers have only a single, short ranged weapon, and tank companies are terribly vulnerable to BM degradation.

Suggestion:

10 Exterminators, Hydra, Commissar - 550
10 Exterminators, Hydra, Commissar - 550
6 Conquerers, Commissar - 340
6 Conquerers, Commissar - 340
Salamander Platoon - 100
Salamander Platoon - 100

6 Activations. Exterminators are only slightly Inferior to Russes in firepower (45cm AP4/AT5 main gun instead of 75cm AP4/AT4) and have improved FF (3+), making the Armored Commisssar Extra Attack count.

Conquerers are the only 4+RA, 35cm move unit in the game. They go wherever they want, and have the guns to back themselves up, even if they have no Sponsons.

You then have your two Salamander Platoons to grab objectives and harrass broken formations.

You can trade a Salamander Platoon or the Hydras for a Supreme Commander if you want.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

The real problem is that the Salamanders are going to die. Very fast, very easily, and very messily. An attacker who has something which is limited by your screening force doesn't really have to choose between targets, since you're either restricting your scouts to the slow speed of the tanks, or are out of range of just about everything. All of a sudden instead of the 7-8 activations you sacrificed to get, you've got 4. After that, things are very much going to be turned against you, since those Thunderers are going to have a hard time applying their strength where you need them. Speed 20cm / Range 30cm means that even if you're able to get in range, you likely had to double to get there. Worst case scenario, every turn you have to choose between having the opportunity to shoot, and actually being able to get to an objective.

The second list is better, as you do have some ranged firepower. On the other hand, you're incredibly vulnerable to having that firepower suppressed. Somebody who shoots and kills a single tank in the second formation essentially reduces it back to all Thunderers, since the longer ranged Leman Russ's will be suppressed unless you can get into range. Don't get me wrong, I usually take a pair of Thunderers in my Tank Companies in order to absorb the first wounds. They definitely serve a role, but I think they're better as in-formation support than as a substitute MBT.

The third formation is definitely the most interesting choice to me. The Salamanders are still incredibly vulnerable (especially with only one Hydra) but the Core formations have some serious long range firepower, high durability, and good resistance to suppression. I don't play a lot of games at 2k, but the biggest threat I can see to those Superheavies is something like a teleporting Terminator squadron materializing next to the Shadowswords, winning the Strategy Rating roll (because 2 vs 5 is little contest ), launching into a close combat assault, and ripping them apart with Macroweapons. If/when that assault is successful, you've lost your only anti-aircraft ability, as well as one of your most durable formations.

I shouldn't criticize without offering an alternative, but I don't really have one. Imperial Guard of most types often requires significant investment in their Core Formations, but Minervans are one of the most activation-light versions. Playing at 2,000 points is a terrible limitation on their ability, especially compared to something like Space Marines.

On the other hand, I think experience, luck, and good strategic thinking has a chance to balance out some of their weaknesses. If you can make one of these lists work, I'd be interested to read about your battle.

Good feedback Spectrar and Signal, thanks.



The salamanders aren't in there to fight, and yes you're correct they are extremely fragile. Where I play in Australia there are a couple of prevalent army builds that use Teleporting - both Terminators and Necrons (yes, 2 out of 14 campaign players here are Necron). The role of the Salamaders against those armies is to screen and absorb the first hit. If 2 die and the third is to far away to fight it may survive to regroup and score later, but either way its job is just a speed bump that allows the tanks to then engage in FF or sustained fire on a formation that wants to be in base contact.

Against shooty armies like Guard, Tau, Eldar etc the Salamanders should just stay out of sight out of mind and go grab an objective late game. If the opponent has artillery, well the salamanders are dead meat but at least that reduces BMs on the vital tanks.

The opponent stil has 20 Leman hulls and 2 Warhounds to deal with in both the first two lists.



Good list idea, I've not seen anyone use Exterminators before. It's only 10pts cheaper so I'd considered the shorter range and less AT power not worth it, but the improved FF is a good point to highlight.



That's probably my favourite.



The Salamanders make that impossible on turn 1 due to their scout screening of the formation. A smart opponent COULD keep terminators off the table until turn 2 and use something else to whittle them down, but 3 platoons of salamanders should make it pretty hard for a teleporting formation to get in to CC.

If the terminators didnt appear on turn 1, a bad guard player would move up and spread out, while a good Guard player could put all the superheavies on Overwatch and nuke them on arrival while still maintaining the scout screen. That should give even terminators a headache, and the guard player could decide to not fire the overwatch unless the terminators do find a way into CC with the big tanks, and instead engage in FF or sustain fire instead. It changes the game from chess to poker, and I like that.

2,000 pts is a difficult size for this army. For meeting that challenge, I'd probably rate my Superheavy list (8 warengines at 2000pts? Why thank you, yes I will take them), then Spectrar's Exterminators, then the 2nd and 1st leman lists above in that order.