I would have thought that each formation having 6xAT4+ shots from vendetta upgrades would help out? that's certainly how I would run the list, having 6BP of rocket pods is still pretty awesome, plus the decent AT shooting from the vendettas, backed up by 1-2 lightning formations

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The more I played the more I became a fan of the Lightnings and by the end I wished I'd brought 3x Lightning rather than 2x Lightning and 1x Thunderbolt.

Lack of AT only really became an issue when facing the AMTL (and the Speed Freak Blitz Brigades), though I definitely agree about bringing the formations 'on the ground' rather than in the air.

I'm surprised about liking the Marauder Destroyers though, it's 10 AT shots for the formation so impressive but almost double the cost of a set of Lightnings and I'd rather spend 300pts for 2 sets of lightnings than 275 (an awkward number for the Vanaheim) for the Destroyers. Is there something there that I'm missing?

It's more an issue of target selection there. You want the infantry, the BP and the numerous Heavy Bolters to be shooting at massed infantry/light vehicles rather than only having the 6AT shots (+3 multilasers from Valkyries) shooting at an armoured company.

But yes, I would not leave home (and didn't) without the Vendettas! It gives the core formations more use as the game goes on.

And the Vulture does carry the Twin Autocannon for AP4/AT5 at 45cm. But early on the vultures are spending their time looking for a good target to drop those missiles on and that rather leaves their secondary guns far out of range. So for the Vultures it's usually missile duty then spend the last turn being a frustrating objective contesting unit (105cm march on scouts covers quite a few objectives...)

It's just a general thing that the AT is available...it's just awkward to use.

The BP is all about the disrupt when you can get two or more templates.

The list was certainly designed from the thematic up, rather than the other way around.

[edit] Just looked back and we had a vendetta formation in early test versions of the list but it was dropped for the upgrade in the core formations as it's basically a re-gunned valkyrie transport.

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Yes, think that I will have to swop some or all my Thunderbolts for Lightnings. Now to find a suitable model for when I wish to play both.

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I'm hoping that the SM2 and E40k tbolts are significantly distinguishable from each other to be used as such.... (not a fan of the massive FW versions)

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I think a mix of the is likely best, T'bolt is a good interceptor, Lightning inderdictor and ground attacker.

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I'm thinking 1 tbolt for interception and air cover, 2 lightnings for ground attack

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Which is what Scutarii took to Counterattack . . . .

Personally looking at the list I wouldn't bother with light sentinels, they're alright as an activation boost but do little. Equally i wouldn't bother with thunderbolts; they have an extra shot each aa but they lack in ground attack. The lightnings are much better AT, have a better approach run for avoiding ground flak because they're fighters not fighter bombers, and a pair still do 2x AA 4+ on an intercept which is enough to mess up the usual paired tb/3 ork fb's. Additionally their AA is 45cm meaning you can intercept thunderhawks frontally without being flakked. Thunderbolts against thunderhawks/landas/ork fb's rarely use their stormbolters because of the defensive flak, making them roughly equal to lightnings in terms of intercept. Except lightnings can engage from outside of flak umbrellas.

Vultures are nice, but once they've popped they're pretty much only useful for capturing/contesting.

If i was running a vanheim list it would look thus:

5x lightnings.
This gives you all the AA you could ever want, and a significant ammount of (repeatable) AT. It also keeps you in competitive # of activations

Sc (vendettas)
2 vanheim mounted units (vendettas)
2 storm troopers
This is basically the bulk of the army which can comfortably go after the lightnings have finished bombing everything, using disruption pods on turn 1 to sow more bm and set up for assaults.
Vultures.
These are the unit to pop something then late game go recapture the blitz.

Jon has truly demonstrated *something* about that 1/3 air allowance you get in most lists... lolz

TBF Jon has just demonstrated why the 45cm range is wrong. I refer you to the thread on power creep in the air game where this issue was raised.

In this case it really make very little difference, at 30cm tbolts and lightnings both get 2 dice per formation on 4s. Only advantage the lightnings have is attacking vampire or thawks from the front which is very rare to need to do.
When using Vanaheim I use the tbolts for CAP and get within 15cm to get all their shots, I do this with most lists but particularily with vanaheim due to their lack of AA. The tbolts are picked in the list to primarily defend from air assaults so I'll risk defensive fire to do that.

Lighnings for me are used in conjunction with Vultures to - remove artillery (vanaheim can't withstand it), kill warhounds and kill transports to prevent my fragile formations being assaulted.

I'd disagree about sentinels too, IMO 3 formations is absolutely vital as they stall before my main units activate and form a shield preventing my opponent from threatening on turn 1 at least

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5 Air formations may be fine for Orks, but 2 flight planes are far to easy to either suppresses with blast markers and attrition.

Jon's list only has 5 formations to contest potentially 6 objectives, I really don't see that being a winning proposition. Which is good.

Sorry Ginger but the 45cm is a total red herring. The Vanaheim have been around for years without dominating, and have been used by both Steve54 and Tiny Tim before relative player skill gets banded about.

The list was never designed to be a power house, but thematic with interesting flaws you need to play around.

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It has 6 to capture TBF I've never made or used this list, its more what i would run if i was making a list. Id also only be interested in 4 objectives not 6 (my blitz, their blitz, plus one other in each half). The other 2 are completely ignorable. Note that which 2 will change from turn to turn depending on whats going on. But that said Im used to having 7 ground units, 4 of which are 4 models, which i know isnt to most people's tastes.

Edit: argueably if im being cocky and depending on opponents list i can even ignore my own blitz. If its going to be captured by a warhound that needs to double/march (i.e. not marshall). Then it can simply be attacked by 3x lightnings for the 3 BM to break it. Less if it starts with some/takes some damage from the first set of lightnings