28/12/09

Army Lists
World Eaters: World Eaters v1.3.1  with:
- December 2009 Playtest Changes
- Scorpion Engines addition

Discussion thread: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 82;t=16291


Space Marines: Epic:A 2008 Handbook edition



Apologies: None.  


Pre-game table set-up (World Eaters find yet another Ork city inhabited by races other than Orks. After an initial bombardment, they attack the opposing force).




Game Note: This game tested the playtest changes with the revised Khorne Daemon Support Engines, as well as the Harbinger bomber that has not been reported in a battle report. Also tested were the Scorpion Engines formation as well as the Defilers, all based on recent Taccom Chaos discussions.


Frogbear – World Eaters 3000 points (9 Activations)
- Berzerkers(1) + Skull Lord + 6xAbhumans
- Berzerkers(2) + Skull Lord + 6xAbhumans
- Chosen + 2xSlaughterfiends – scout ability
- Bikes   (Juggers as proxies)
- Daemon Support Engines (Cannons of Khorne x4)
- Daemon Support Engines (Doom Blasters x4)
- Defiler Engines
- Scorpion Engines (1xGreater Brass Scorpion + 2x Brass Scorpions)
- Harbinger





Space Marines  3000 Points (8 Activations) - Played by Drew
- Tactical Squad + Supreme Commander + Land Raider + Hunter
- Tactical Squad + Librarian + Land Raider
- SM Bikes(1) + Chaplain
- SM Bikes(2) + Chaplain
- Landspeeders(1) + Librarian  (Battlestar Galactica ships as proxies)
- Landspeeders(2) + Librarian  (Battlestar Galactica ships as proxies)
- Warlord Titan
- Thunderbolts

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Note: All directions in battle report will be given from the standing point of the World Eaters Player

Key:
WoE = World Eaters
SM = Space Marines
DSE= Daemonic Support Engines


Garrisons:
Space marines
- None

World Eaters:
- Berserkers(1) RHS Ork Buildings
- Berserkers(2) Centre buildings
- Chosen with Berserkers(2) behind Centre buildings




Setr Up

As this was a corner deployment, setup instructions are a little hard so I will let the pictures do the talking:

Space Marines




World Eaters:





Teleports: None

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Turn 1
Space Marines win Initiative  

- Thunderbolts go on CAP
- Harbinger GA Landspeeder formation(2). Thunderbolts enact their CAP. The AA fire from the harbinger flies wide. Thunderbolts come in for the attack causing 1 wound with no critical. Harbinger continues its bombing run hitting both Landepeedrs(2) and SM Bikes(2) with templates. Only 1 Landspeeder dies to the horrific attack (below average rolling from the World Eater player – based on averages, we should have seen 2 kills).




- Tactical formation w/Librarian Doubles towards Berserkers(1) for no damage
- Berserkers(2) march up to cover of forward centre buildings
- Tactical formation w/Supreme Commander Doubles towards Ork buildings and fire on Berserkers(1) killing 1 Bloodgor.
- Doom Blasters, seeing an opening, Double towards Tactical w/Supreme Commander and rain down 8BP of templates. Only 1 Rhino dies in the bombardment.
- Chosen, seeing BM on the tactical unit decide to Engage riding their Slaughterfiends. Tacticals do 3 damage to the Chosen, in which 2 invulnerable saves see only 1 stand die. In response, the Chosen cause 3 hits + 1MW hit to see 3 units die. Dice are rolled and Chosen win by 6!. Tactical w/Supreme Commander run for their lives.

Chosen Charge!



- Warlord Titan, angry at this show of defeat, Doubles forward and fires on the Doom Blasters wiping the unit out



- Land Speeders(1) decide to engage the Chosen. 2 Landspeeders and a Slaughterfiend die before the supporting fire of the Warlord sees another 3 Chosen cut down. Landspeeders win the combat by 4. Having only a Slaughterfiend and Skull Lord left (both being Fearless), no extra hits are caused and the Skull Lord latches onto the Slaughterfied (DTT made) to scuttle off away from the Warlord titan.
- Berserkers(1) want to place as much distance from the Warlord and approaching units as they can, and making their initiative roll (thank goodness) March back towards their own blitz using the building as cover.
- SM Bikes(1) March towards Warlord
- Scorpion Engines March up the length of the table attempting to keep building cover of them and the Warlord
- SM Bikes(2) March towards the Warlord
- Defilers March forward to support the Scorpion Engine advance
- Landspeeders(2) also March to be next to the Warlord
- Cannon’s of Khorne side step out from the cover of buildings to take a cheap shot at Landspeeders(2). They kill 1 Speeder and break the unit.
- World Eater Bikes March up the left hand side of the table and keep cover behind buildings
 


Rally Phase
- Chosen fail to Rally
- All other units Rally


End Turn 1




...and from Marine viewpoint


Teleports:
- None

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Turn 2
WoE win Initiative  

- Harbinger rolls a 4+ and decides to GA Tactical formation w/Librarian. Barrage templates hit both Tactical units yet only 1 stand from the Librarian’s formation dies.
- Disappointed with such a lack-luster bombing, the Cannon’s of Khorne side step a little more and fire on the the Librarian’s Tactical formation using the Ignore cover ability yet achieving no hits.
- Thunderbolts attempt to Intercept and fail. The Supreme Commander issues further orders yet the Thunderbolts ignore the orders and Stand Down to re-arm
- Berserkers(2) March towards central Marine objective.    
- Warlord Doubles to shoot at Scorpion Engines killing 1 Brass Scorpion outright
- Defilers March up towards Marine middle objective
- Supreme Commander with what is left of his Tactical formation Doubles towards Cannons of Khorne. An Invulnerable save sees the Cannon’s of Khorne coming out unscathed.
- Scorpion Engines March into cover (making all DTT) of the craters to help secure middle Marine objective.
- Speeders(1) Double to shoot at Scorpions for no damage yet placing them 1 BM from being broken.
- Berserkers(1) March back towards own blitz into the cover of craters.
- Librarian and his Tac formation Double to shoot at the Cannons of Khorne for no damage
- World Eater Bikers March around back table edge to secure Marine Blitz Objective
- SM Bikes(1) March to within 20cm of Berserkers(1) who have positioned themselves in the craters.
- SM Bikes(2) March to within 20cm of Berserkers(1) who have positioned themselves in the craters.


Rally Phase
- Chosen once again fail to rally and run into the craters with the Scorpion Engines. In doing so, the Slaughterfiend trips up and flips destroying itself and crushing the Skull Lord character and unit riding it (failed DTT and saves)
- All other units Rally


End Turn 2

Right hand side view


...left hand side battle for the World Eater Blitz


...and the other end of the table. Those Landspeeders are toast!



Teleports:
None

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Turn 3
Space marines win Initiative  

- Landspeeders(1) Sustain vs Scorpion Engines for no effect
- Supreme Commander and the remains of his Tactical unit retain and Sustain vs Cannons of Khorne killing 1 and breaking the unit.
- Harbinger, seeing that the marines did not Charge with the Bikes, GA the bikes and catches both units under the templates. When the dust clears, 2 Bikes from SM Bikes(1) are dead and BM are placed on both units.
- Berserkers(1) retain and March to obscure the Blitz from the enemy

Protect at all costs!


- Thunderbolts Intercept the Harbinger to claim BTS. Harbinger AA is useless as the Thunderbolts continue the Intercept and only succeed in doing 1 wound (no critical)



- Scorpions Advance within the craters making all DTT and fire on SM Landspeeders(1) killing 2 of them leaving them 1BM away from being broken.
- Defilers retain and risk Advancing through the craters making all DTT to then fire on the speeders wiping them out and helping to gain the T&H objective.
- Librarian with his Tactical unit March to claim the mid Objective on the WoE side of the table
- Berserkers(2) decide to stretch themselves out between two middle objectives to prevent the Warlord killing any one unit that is holding an objective. Doing this, they guaranteed that no matter what the Warlord did, the T&H objective would be held.

Grab those objectives you curs!


- Warlord, slow and ponderous as it is, decides to Double and fire on the Defilers. Only being able to see 2 of them through the craters, he kills both breaking the unit.
- WoE Bikes position themselves to secure the Blitz objective.
- SM Bikes(2) position themselves in front of Berserkers(1) to offer FF support for a future combat.
- SM Bikes(1) Charge Berserkers(1) in a desperate attempt to dislodge the unit from the blitz. At -3 on the dice roll to start, they found the FF defence of the Berserkers to be more than what they accounted for as they lose 2 bikes to the WoE not losing a single model. Marines lose the combat by 4 and the game is over at this point.
- SM Landspeeders(2) with no clear path to the Blitz, decide to move to the 2nd objective to save face with the T&H Objective.  


Game Over

World Eaters: 2 (Blitz, T&H)
Space Marines: 1 (T&H)


World Eaters Take and Hold



World Eater Bikes securing Blitz

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After Game Thoughts

World Eaters
- When placing objectives, if there is a Warlord, spread them out 45cm and not just 30cm as this will allow the Warlord to prevent 3 game objectives
- I was generally pleased with the performance hugging cover and having the SM player have to make judgement calls that saw him attacking disposable units such as the Daemon Support Engines and not touching the items that would eventually win me the game (units with 20+cm movement).
- The Harbinger was an underperformer for his points and can be quite fragile – especially for a BTS.
- Daemon Support Engines did their job – provided a fear element for the opposition
- Defiler unit is quite fragile but very useful. Need to use these more efficiently in combats that have more troops and activations
- Scorpion Engines – another fragile unit that cannot make it out in the open, These really need to skulk around and get into CC where possible.
- Berserkers and Bikes did their job as expected. Will be reducing the Bloodgors available to the Berserkers as 6 stands I felt was far too numerous to add to a unit of 8 for their points.
- Chosen on Slaughterfiends – always love using these guys and they provide much entertainment, even at my own Chagrin when they happen to kill themselves with DTTs.  

Space Marines
- Did not use his Warlord to win the game. Used it to kill things which played into my hands I felt. If it had protected its own objectives or actively gone after mine, it would have been very hard for me to finish the game before count back.
- Bunched the bikes and speeders together even with the knowledge of the harbinger – a very bad move.
- Lacked Terminators and a strong air defence to really provide the WoEs with any problems, especially with a Warlord who was not looking to claim any game points other than kills.

Note: Have suggested that future ground pounder Space Marine forces in our games will use the ground pounder list making ground units cheaper to more represent the correct points of such an army. Paying the costs associated with an air assault force is unwarranted for ground pounders IMO.

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Thanx for another excellent report FB!

A couple of comments:



I think the real problem here, was your model. It had no wings. Bombers need wings. No wings, bombs go all over the place. The Americans and British learned that lesson the hard way in WWII. Now all their bombers have wings. Next time find a model with wings.  

Seriously, I think you just had some pretty bad rolls. To the extent that you can afford to do this, I'd take it in some more battles and see what it does. Also, with some escort, you may find that it's effectiveness increases.



Initially, it seemed like the WL was going to be used offensively to pound you and force you to deal with it. Later it seemed to fade off (trying to read between the lines of the report). When you take a WL in a game of this size, it really has to be the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to deal with. If you don't use it aggressively, that tends to be a lost use of points.



Although I understand your desire and I certainly don't want to discourage any testing, especially against up and coming lists, the existing SM list is quite well rounded and has enough teeth in it to give you the test you are looking for. I don't believe that it is as hampered in an all ground role (having done some testing in this area) as you might think.

Also, it is a known commodity and thus provides a common analysis point for not only your opponents, but interested observers. Whenever doing root cause analysis of a problem, it is much easier to identify issues if the number of variables involved can be minimized. Two "in development" lists can increase your level of complexity, when it comes to analysis pretty quickly.

That being said, the Apocrypha list has generated some interest from the grounders and deserves to be played, but I would offer that when making any observations/decisions related to the WoE, that some caution is in order.

Thanx for sharing!

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I understand what you mean by that, but Morgan and I have strong views towards what things are worth, and the World Eater list is evidence of that. You pay the high prices for taking the main element of the attack, and get rewarded when taking something different; the pricing of the Dreadclaws in the upcoming update will be evidence of this.

If you have views and want to change the game, you have to be prepared to show the examples and that is what we are doing. I also like to throw in the 'fun' games with alternate lists as people wanmt to playt them, and at the end of the day, we are playing to have fun rather than make a new list  

Thanks for taking an interest and replying. All the feedback counts and it is well regarded.

Cheers......    

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You certainly provide a very methodical way of forging a brand new army, which is a far from theory hammer as it gets. I am impressed by your diligent work. Do take the SM ground pounder list out for a spin, it needs that. With the amount of games you get in with other lists, I do not think it will affect WoE development negatively.

_________________
"Don't use finesse, if force will solve the problem."

- Lieutenant General Michael O'Neal

Definately

We are taking the ground pounder against another list so that may be reported in the future.

As for a ground pounder vs the WoE. It will be a very interesting battle indeed as Marines get given that little bit extra man power.

I am happy to assist other lists as long as support is given for them. I really do not like it when someone develops a list and then shows no initiative or drive with it. If they do not bother, then why should I? It is the drive behind the WoE in that, if I keep at it, maybe I will build the interest up. Also I have alot of fun playing it. It is never a boring game as winning is a tactical matter rather than brute force pounding.

Now that I have started to paint up the models that I have, no doubt the dedication will be stronger than ever - if that is possible  

Cheers Ares  and thank you for your kind words  

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you and your DTT tests

it seemed like a lot of your barrages didn't do much, though that's also my experience against SM - unless you have Disrupt as well they're tough enough and have TSKNF that they should shrug most of it off. Not sure what I would have taken instead - something to neutralise the Speeders probably, either through firepower or maneuverability.

I agree about the underutilisation of the Warlord too - I've lost games before by doing the same, as you end up playing with really only ~2200pts.

good to see the reports piling up though My folks are here for the next couple of weeks, but after that I'll be game to help out.

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numquam culum es

What, the folks don't play?    

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sadly not besides, I haven't seen them for 2 years, thought I might spend some time with them...

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Cool

My PM box or my MSN will be waiting for you Matt    

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