Well, had a first run with the Nids against Eldar...

..didn't go well.

Well when a large chunk of my army literally cannot hurt a large chunk of the opponents (CC only versus Skimmer), your pretty much ******.

This was my list:

Dominatrix- with:
-3xCarnifex
-2xBarbed Heirodule
-3xZoanthrope
-2xGargoyles
-8xHormagaunts
-4xTermagants

Warriors (x3)- with:
-2xGargoyles
-8xTermagants
-12xHormagaunts

Synapse Node- with:
-4xDactlyis

Harridan- with:
-4xGargoyles

Lictors (x3)

Lictors (x3)

Aerial Spore Cluster (x6)

Genestealers (x6)

The Dominatrix is my big hitter, with the Warrior swarm in support.

The Synapse Node sits on an objective allowing the Dactylis to bombard nearby.

Harridan is a small but fast formation.

Lictors are suicide assaults, very fast, very good in combat.

Genestealers are there to look pretty.

Aerial Spore Mines float around in a line like Barrage Balloons to deter Aircraft.


Well, what went wrong, horribly wrong?

The Skimmer versus CC rule just bones Tyranids utterly, it's hilarious- just think about it, imagine I told you 3 of your 8 formations can do nothing to my army, and the majority of units in the rest can't or can do very little. My Lictors and Genestealers literally could only hurt the Eldar Titan and the Guardian formation when it arrives. Neither of which is an easy prospect.
Everything else was a Skimmer and so immune to the game.

Of my other units, Hormagaunts couldn't hurt anything- whilst almost all the other Nid units had brilliant CC values and MW assault attacks and rubbish Firefights.

In short, it's like fighting with both hands tied behind your back.

So what could I take from the game other than don't play against Eldar with Nids?

Well, if you scrape away the awful balance issues with All-Skimmer versus CC army, if you scrape away the bucketload of special rules Eldar use to ignore the core rules....I would have still lost the game, I was outplayed- encircled to be precise.

Well, the Genestealers whilst characterful are utter rubbish, too fragile and very limited (all they can do is Engage and pray to can fight in CC).
So they're gone.

The Aerial Spore Mines- too expensive, too slow, too ineffective, unable to capture, too fragile.
So they're gone.

Zoanthropes- bizarrely they have no AT value. They didn't impress. So they're gone.

Harridan- not so clean cut this one, it has it's uses, it's an iconic image (dragonesque, flying monster of doom), and it's fast where most other Nid stuff is slow. But it's too fragile, it would be the only War Machine in it's formation and so doomed to be picked off. So it's gone.

Overall I like how the Nid special rules work, there's a fare few of them, but most of them disable rather than benefit the Nids (the mirror of Eldar). Most of your units must cluster around the Synapse, if Synapse dies they scatter and vanish from the board.

The Spawning special rule, one of the very few beneficial aspects of the Nid Special Rules is a nice concept, but it's pretty pitiful, generally a formation will regain 4-5 Hormagaunt units a game...it loses more than treble that in a turn.

The units work very much like their 40k counterparts, it does seem the writer has simply 'translated' them into Epic. Which is great, and what I would have done, but it doesn't take into account the extreme armies that can be built like all Tank Company IG, or all Skimmer Eldar, so various units are just not viable (Genestealers spring to mind).

Here's the list I'm working on at present:

Dominatrix- with:
-2xBarbed Heirodule
-3xCarnifex
-2xGargoyles

Warrior (x3)- with:
-3xGargoyles
-6xHormagaunts
-6xTermagants

Warrior (x3)- with:
-3xGargoyles
-6xHormagaunts
-6xTermagants

Synapse Node- with:
-4xDactylis

Lictor (x3)

Lictor (x3)

Heirophant

Heirophant

3000pts


The biggest change is the addition of two 'scout' titans. I understand the ironic comparison to the Warhound Titans in a SM army, they're cheap, tough activations.

They also pack the most firepower of any of my Nid formations (which isn't saying much at 4x AP3/AT4).

The rest is pretty similar to previous. Dactylis sit back and bombard. Dominatrix leads from front with Warriors in support. Lictors strike out at oppurtunity targets like a Basilisk battery.

It's likely my Nids will become a Pretty Shelf Army (PSA) *TM, though I'll bring them out to play before Marines. IG being my favourite at present.

I'm tempted to roll out a proxy Eldar army just for a laugh- "A Special Rule for Every Occasion". JSJ and Skimmers follow me from 40k to Epic, shudder.

Wow, I didn't know you could swear on these forums!  *laugh*

And, yes, a skimmer heavy army is brutal for any close-combat army, but Nids in particular.  Sometimes you need to setup "support fire" situation and trigger them with your assault Broods and hope they survive long enough to trigger support fire.

More comments to come.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I apologise for the swear, I just copied the post from my clubs forum which is a bit more informal.

I understand Genestealers and Lictors, etc literally have no guns, they can only hurt an enemy if within tentacle/claw/arm reach, but combining this aspect with the Epic Skimmer rules just makes many situtations ridiculous.

A case of the background/realism sucking the enjoyment out of the game (funny, as in most cases it's the opposite).

Consider a list:

Eldar Titan

Jetbikes

2-3x Falcons (5/6)

Aspects in Wave Serpents, Supreme Commander

Void Spinner

Storm Serpent

Guardians, Farseer in portal

There are only 2 things in that list that I can hurt, one of which is the toughest unit in the army.
Aren't games supposed to be set-up to have a chance for both players? Isn't such a rock/paper/scissor result a bit poor for army list design (Nids or Eldar) or a result of the Epic Skimmer rule being overpowered?

Sometimes you need to setup "support fire" situation and trigger them with your assault Broods and hope they survive long enough to trigger support fire.

Please take a look at this battle report of mine:

Bugs vs Biel-Tan

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I get the feeling Nids will get better the bigger the pts game, if no other reason than they can cover a lot more of a 4x6 board and so prevent the Eldar hiding and zipping around it.

So my answer is to play 5k not 3k?

Actually... I'd not use the Dominatrix in 3000 points very often... that's a potential *three* to *four* other swarms you could be fielding that wouldn't be a big bull's-eye for the Eldar at that point level.

Take a look at some of the Tyranid army compositions in the various 3000 point battle reports... I couldn't find another recent one against basic Eldar unfortunately.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Where else can I find a Supreme Commander re-roll?

My initial lists didn't include a Dominatrix for the reasons you give, I generally avoid the big hitters to take larger armies (be it 40k, Fantasy, etc). But I missed the re-roll, and the Dominatrix was one of the few things that shined in the game as it was the only reliable Synapse to hold a formation together.

For assaults, which they're the best at, Tyranids are able to activate on a 1+... so, honestly, I haven't found that much of a need for the re-roll in 3000 point games... and I tend to fail my re-roll a lot more than necessary, so I've really learned to live without it!  *laugh*

And how were the Eldar killing your Tyranid Warriors, as they seem to have a lot of AT weapons, but not a lot of AP weapons... three Tyranid Warriors in the middle of a swarm should be pretty hard to kill if the enemy doesn't have Rangers.

Or, go with the Nexus Group with two Warriors and a Hive Tyrant in a mixed swarm... and don't hesitate to split your Dactylis into different groups... four barrage templates can spread around a lot of Blast markers.  One of the tricks against Eldar is to try to always leave them with 2 Blast markers as then can't clear them all in the Rally Phase.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

For assaults, which they're the best at, Tyranids are able to activate on a 1+... so, honestly, I haven't found that much of a need for the re-roll in 3000 point games... and I tend to fail my re-roll a lot more than necessary, so I've really learned to live without it!  *laugh*

How much cover do you use in play, Jeridian?

Your swarms should be moving cover-to-cover to get that cover save against enemy attacks as much as possible... if the Eldar are initiating the fights all that time, you should be getting those saves!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

You could try my favoured AV swarm. Hive Tyrant + 2 Malefactors, Haruspex and couple of Carnifex. That has enough staying power to take on most in FF or CC. Also a more detailed battle report would be very nice to see how you use the nids.

Actually, the Tournament Scenario specifies the level of terrain you should use and armies tend to be designed to take advantage of that terrain level:

Some quotes from the guidelines:

• We recommend the use of terrain features when playing tournament games in preference to modular terrain (see
the Appendices for a more detailed description of the two types of terrain).

• Terrain features can be of pretty much any type, but should be roughly 15-30cm across. Hills can be up to twice this
size. See below for a note of how to deal with rivers and roads.

• Divide the table into 60cm (2 foot) square areas. The total number of terrain features placed should be equal to
twice the number of 60cm square areas. For example, if you were playing on a 120cm by 180 cm, you would have
six areas and should place 12 terrain features.

• Within the limits above, place between 0-4 features in each 60cm square.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Would you guys be counting that whole cluster of "trees" as a forest in the attached photo?

If so, to me it looks like you could pack a fair number of Brood creatures in there and those buildings, if that's your normal placement!  And always remember to put your war engines in cover too, the walker ability should keep them alive, and if your enemy is doubling to hit-and-run things in cover, that's a -2 to their to-hit roll!

Also, Tyranids don't take Blast markers from disrupt weapons unless they hit Independent or Synapse creatures, so there's not as much worry about them as other armies have to.  In fact, with careful placement, you can prevent your Synapse creatures from being targetted at all, simply clump Brood creatures a little more closely together than the Synpase and your enemy has to place the barrage templates to maximize the units under the template.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I'm not gonna blame terrain for my defeat, though those Tournament requirements are an eye-opener.
Depends what they mean by these 15-30cm terrain features. We certainly had lots terrain, much of it was craters, small hills, etc that didn't obscure the view much.

Yet another Eldar/Skimmer special rule kicks in though, where they can pop up and see whatever they want when they shoot, then pop down before anyone can shoot back.

I guess I'm more irritated by facing Eldar, than by playing as Nids. Since I first faced them in 40k they just seem to have a special rule for every occasion.

Would you guys be counting that whole cluster of "trees" as a forest in the attached photo?