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2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games

 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:56 pm 
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I had two games against fluffy today.  After several PMs with him I knew that it would be a 4000pt game with my marines against tech guard at 4000pts.  Initially he wanted to use AMTL against marines, but I said no.  I haven?t used marines that much and haven?t won with them.  I didn?t feel like facing an army of fearless void shielded war engines.

Last night I got a PM saying he might be a few points over 3000pts, being a few points over wasn?t that much of a problem with me, but the mention of 3000pts was a bit of a worry.  So I made a 3000pt list and packed all of my tech guard, titans and marines to take to the battle.

I got there and found out that fluffy actually meant that he wanted to take AMTL against tech guard.  Since neither of us had the tech guard list I agreed to play against titans with marines.  Though I couldn?t face making taking pictures of making detailed notes.  Marines dying by the drove isn?t that enjoyable.

Armies
AMTL
Righteous prejudice
Warlord with two turbo lasers and two gatling blasters

God Banes
Reaver with turbo laser and two volcano cannons

Brighid?s chariot
Reaver with chainfist and two gatling blasters

Isabella?s Knight
Reaver with powerifst, chain fist and gatling cannon, veteran prince, sacred icon

Marines
Tactical formation with one razor back (las cannon)

Tactical formation with one razor back (las cannon)

Devastator formation with no transport

Whirlwind formation

Land speeder formation

Assault formation with Chaplin

Assault formation with Chaplin

Thunderhawk

Marauder squadron

Thunderbolt squadron

2 warhounds

Set up
The devastators and speeder set up in garrison in the middle, the devs in a forest and the speeders behind the forest.

One tactical formation and the whirlwinds were deployed near the blitz, with the warhounds to their right and the final tactical formation to their left in their transport.

The AMTL deployed Isabella?s knight opposite the single tactical formation and the rest of the legio faced off against the two wayward warhounds.

[u[]turn 1[/u]
The turn started with the Marauders screaming down out of the sky, their bombs able to hit both God Bane and Brighid?s Chariot.

This was followed up by the whirlwinds sustaining on the same two reavers.

Blast markers were placed and all the void shields were rempoved form God Bane and three from Brighid?s chariot.

In response righteous Prejudice and then Brighid?s Chariot advanced on the devastators blasting apart three of them and causing the last squad to fall back into the wood, so no one else could see them.

At this point god Bane was left without the support of its brethren, so the Thunderhawk landed behind it and out jumped the assault boyz.  One squad was stood upon, but the others managed to cause 4 points of damage to the Reaver and a critical.  The Reaver lost the assault and ran screaming past its collegues, as it tried to get away from the crazy marines.

Isabella?s Knight then marched forwards, ready to get to grips with the marines in front of it.

The tactical in front of the blitz advanced upon Isabella?s Knight (mostly so they could hide in the nearby ruins) and dropped one of her voids.

The second tactical then drove out past Isabella?s knight, before jumping out and waving their missile launchers at the Reaver.

This was followed by the Thunderbolts unloading their missiles into the titan, finally bringing down the last of its voids.

As a last move, the speeders doubles upto the broken God Bane, putting its bulk between them and the other two titans of the pack, before opening up with their mmultimeltas.

4 hits and two failed saves later God Bane crashed to the ground, revealing the speeders to a very angry looking warlord.

Sometime during the turn the warhounds fail their activation and hide behind a wood.

End phase
Everyone rallies

turn 2
Brighid?s Chariot Slams into the assault marines cutting them ll down, but not before suffering 2DC and a damaged plasma reactor.

Righteous Prejudice then strides towards the speeders and blasts them all from the sky.

The rest is a bit blurry, but Isabella?s Knight engaged the second tactical formation in a firefight, blew up one rhino, lost 1DC in return and lost.  Running right up to the first tactical.

First tactical then partial surround Isabella?s knight (with their Rhinos) to get cross fire and shot it up a bit, as did most of my air force, tactical two and the whirl winds.  I managed to knock it down to 4 DC and a broken plasma reactor

The warhounds then marched up behind Isabella?s knight, warming up their plasma blast guns.

End phase, everyone rallies
Brighid?s chariot fixes it?s plasma reactor
Isabella?s knight?s plasma reactor causes it 1 point of damage

Turn 3
Tactical one sustain fire on Isabella?s knight and do one point of damage and another critical.

The warhounds sustain fire at Isabella?s knight and do nothing (1 more DC would of broken her)

Isabella?s Knight engages the two warhounds, getting nito contact with one of them, and easily killsit.  Her other attacks knock down both of the second warhounds voids and cause 1DC of damage.  The return fire does nothing.

Supporting fire from the nearby tactical marines all misses, as does the fire from their razorback.  However the fire form two of their Rhinos hits home and Fluffy fails both saves!  The titan crashes to the ground.

The rest of the turn involves me distracting the other titans with my air craft whilst tactical 2 marches towards one objective (6 marines and only 5 transport spaces).  Once Fluffy was out of activations the Thunderhawk lands at his blitz.  

Securing a 2 -0 victory.
Take and hold and Blitz.  I might of even of had hold the line.

For the second battle we switched sides and forces.  As a result of objectibe placement, we ended up only playing across half of the board.  I am not sure why fluffy deployed his objectives close together.  I did so, so that they would be easy to capture.

Deployment wise I placed all of the titans close together for mutual support.  The opening salvos destroyed the entire speeder formation (righteous prejudice) and two of the whirlwinds (God Bane).

The return fire was weak and sporadic, as I kept most of my titans hidden and Fluffy marched both tactical formations and warhounds behind the central ruins.

Turn two started with Righteous prejudice advancing away from the main pack so that he could see one of the tactical formations and blow apart all of its transports.

God Bane then opened up on the Warhounds, killing one and doing 1 DC of damage to the other, the broken warhound fled to my blitz.

The assault marines then ground attacked Righteous prejudice breaking the beast (and causaing 3Dc of damage) for the lost of two squads.

One of the marine tactical formations then advanced into the ruins and fired at God Bane, doing little damage and opening itself up to a charge from Isabella?s Knight.  The entire formation was lost for no damage.

The rest of the game was just a mopping up exercise, with me winning on turn 4 with Hold te line, defend the flag and Break their spirit against nothing.

I had lost nothing, bar a few DC here and there.  Fluffy had his aircraft and a single stand of devastators left.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Well...congratulation for you first victory with marines :D

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:15 pm 
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Thanks BL.

And I did it with reasonable loses.

8 squads of assault marines
3 squads of devastators
2 Chaplins
1 Rhino
and a Warhound.

I was so shocked, but I have been reading up on the battle reports and tactics.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Well a dead Company against 2 Titans doesn't sound that bad.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:35 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Mar. 01 2008,19:19)
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Well a dead Company against 2 Titans doesn't sound that bad.

11 stands is only half a company (55 marines)

plus an almost irraplaceable titan.

I think that is very good lose rate.  Almost make sup for my mssacre against the tech guard from a few months back when I lost the chapter master!  :O

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Seems the titans rolled awfully in the assaults, causing few hits and failing many saves? I?ve seen plenty of infantry assaults fail as there just was no way to get even with the attackers dying left and right while the towering machine saved almost everything... combat resolution killiing the rest.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:45 pm 
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@ragnarok : You said "squad" in you casualty list, not "stand".

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:47 pm 
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Fluffy did roll quite badly for his hits and saves, but not as badly as he has done in the past.  His rolling was probably on par with my normal rolling, and today I was very lucky with sme of my rolls (4 hits out of 5 with doubling land speeder), but other balanced this out, suh as failing 2 out of 4 plasma blast gun shots.

I think the thing with AMTL is that if you have a bad ice day it punishes you, ince you don't have the modelcount to compensate.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:09 pm 
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4 activations for the AMTL?  All direct fire, slow moving units.

If the marines just hide for most of the game this looks almost like an auto-lose for the AMTL.

Turn 1 Marines hide behind terrain.
Turn 2 After AMTL activates everything, Marines surround one titan.
Turn 3 Marines air assault surrounded titan

Leaves 3 activations for the AMTL to take objectives (3 at most now), target and break 6 marine formations, and get across the board to prevent TSNP.

Or am I missing something?


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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:47 pm 
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In the first game, when I was marines, that is just what I did.  I hid, before jumping on isolated titans, killing and breaking them.  Then I waited for fluffy to run pout of activations before I went objective grabbing.

In the second game I kept all the titan close together for mutual support, so that if fluufy assaulted one of them the others were in position to give supporting fire, or to counter assault in the foloowing action.

also remember that one Reaver had a chain fist (+6 MW attacks) and another had a chain fist and a power fist (+6 MW and +3 TK(D3) attacks) so assaulting them were big no nos.

I agree that playing a game of hide form the titans would of made a marine win more easy than attacking the titans, but that isn't as heroic, or a fun game.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:08 am 
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Yeah, I actually thought you made a good game of it versus the titans.  My point was more that the AMTL list didn't really encourage a good game, since the best tactics are avoid any fights and win on activations.  It relies on the opponent "playing nice" to make a game of it.

If I was in your place I would have discussed with the AMTL about how the list can be defeated rather easily in that particular way and given some ideas on how to fix it.  I mean at 3k there are armies that could happily have 4 formations wiped out each turn and still have more than enough to out-activate 4 units.

True those titans with CC weapons can't be CC assaulted, but surround one with enough support fire and the assault marines do not need to CC assault, FF will be fine (barring unusual dice etc).

Keeping the titans together would prevent assaults on them, but by turn 3 they will either be split up or not holding any objectives (well one or two at a stretch).  The marine player simply places his T&H objectives as far from the blitz as possible and far enough from the half way line to prevent a titan holding it from the marine table half.  So with one titan on each objective and one needing to be in the marine half to prevent TSNP it will be nigh on impossible to keep the titans in close support range.  And remember the marines dont go near the titans till after they have activated.

But at the end of the day as long as you guys enjoyed the game that's all that matters. (As L4 would say DWWFY)


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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:16 am 
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Interesting games, thanks for the report. I started testing out lists for AMTL this weekend against my newly painted BL and I must say that a lack of activations or cheap activations that are quickly broken are the achilles heal of this army list.

In both my test games I had a Reaver holding back on my Blitz with MRLs and a Landing Platform to give long ranged support. Even though it was initially protected with scouts in both games it was jumped by Chosen with Daemon Prince and Obliterators and taken down. I will have to re-think this part of my list. Going forward though the titans are awesome and from TRC's list I would say that the Fire Control Tower is very impressive on a Warlord.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Mar. 03 2008,09:16)
QUOTE
Interesting games, thanks for the report. I started testing out lists for AMTL this weekend against my newly painted BL and I must say that a lack of activations or cheap activations that are quickly broken are the achilles heal of this army list.

In both my test games I had a Reaver holding back on my Blitz with MRLs and a Landing Platform to give long ranged support. Even though it was initially protected with scouts in both games it was jumped by Chosen with Daemon Prince and Obliterators and taken down. I will have to re-think this part of my list. Going forward though the titans are awesome and from TRC's list I would say that the Fire Control Tower is very impressive on a Warlord.

Lack of activations = achilles heal of AMTL.  What I was trying to say, but more succinctly.

I would guess that Chosen+DP+Obliterators would be capable of shifting just about anything of your blitz.  Just a thought, but I might put the MRL Reaver NOT on the blitz when facing the uber teleporter assault.  Make him choose between jumping the Reaver OR taking the blitz.  If he goes for the blitz at least the Reaver (and whatever else you have left) gets a chance to shoot them.


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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:24 pm 
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I would (if I had the points and the model) have a warlord with two MRLs a CLP and a chain fist as a blitz guard.  It is a massive point sink, but the extra MW CC attacks should make the opponent think twice about assaulting it.

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 Post subject: 2 3K AMTL vs Marine Games
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Two very good ideas. I was starting to think that I should abandon the Blitz and aim to just contest it with a formation at the end of the third and fourth turns.

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