When using the Subjucator in the Lost and Damned list at UK tournaments and with in a few EUK playtest lists (all with initiative 2+) , I've always found them to be adequate for their points.

They are a unit that at first players/opponents think are heavily under-costed but their threat in games does see them targeted quickly so usually more than a lone Subjucator (threatening multiple enemy formations if possible)is needed to feel their effect in games.

I'm taking some to BotCh tournament next weekend so there may be battle reports and hopefully calls from other tournament players to ban them .

dptdexys

Thanks for that. You raise some good points which have also seem me not really tackle this issue too hard as I understand I have had only minimal exposure to these guys.

Any feedback or examples would definitely be appreciated

Cheers.....

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If I get time at the tournament I'll try to make some notes on how they were used, hopefully opponents will do batreps too.

If I get the chance to use them with the play-testing games coming up I'll try to post some minireports on them.

I thought the Subjugator was a bit meh. The long ranged battlecannons together with Tk CC weapon was a bit odd (especially with a CC5+ value, it's got Titan Killing blades for goodness sake), though it was reasonable as an area denial tool. I think it killed an attack bike and a speeder in my game. Given that it's going to be trying to get into CC as much as possible, I'd rather see it with a) CC4+ (with a drop to FF4 or 5) and b) 1 or 2 of the Castigator cannons (as on the Questor). Then you'd see people doubling it like crazy, get a few shots off and engage the next turn.
That's how I'd do it anyway and screw the "it's got x bells and whistles therefore it gets this and this from 40k" crowd

It's CC 3+ and FF5+ with speed 35 cm (that speed catches players out and gives it a massive area of threat that it can assault) it also has Walker (can hide in/behind terrain before it engages) and can fire weapons All Round.

not to be argumentative, but it's CC5+ FF3+ in Frogbear's draft document

You have the older draft

It should have been fixed on the upload in June. After this weekend, the final upload will be set for 1 year so hopefully no more of these problems from a list in development.

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The other game going on in my other garage was using all the Ork terrain. I would if I could

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If your playing with the Questor stats then no wonder you're finding them Meh!! .

Give them a few goes at their real stats they should work/feel better.

I am thinking of taking 4 of these in a game and using one to take the hits and die while the other three get through to create some damage.

Knowing my luck, I will come up against an all Infantry Ork force with alotta Grotz

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Just make sure when you engage, barge contact to your limit (6) without including Grots. If he has Grots up front, that's what Castigator Cannons (Knights/Questors) are for.

Morgan Vening

ah, that would change things a bit. Hmm, having a Questor and Subjugator tag teaming would be nasty - shoot up a fm with the Q, move into support range, then retain and engage with the Sub. That is if your opponent is sitting around long enough to let you do that. I could see it working well against a slower moving army, such as IG.

Just to note jere are the weapons the official Wh40k Apocalyspe Subjugator Titan is armed with:

- 2 x Tormentor Cannons (statswise 45cm Battle Cannons with Pinning/Disrupt)
- 2 x Hellslicer Battleclaws (CC-weapons. They don't grant TK attacks but as a super heavy walker all attacks already count as if from a Monstrous Creature = MW in Epic)
- Twin Blastmaster
- Subjugator Doom Siren (a Heavy Flamer with a bigger template)

It has the same armour as a Hellhound (12/12/10. Predator is 13/11/10). Thats way lighter than a Warhound (14/13/12. Leman Russ Demolisher is 14/13/11. Reaver and Warlord are 14/14/13).

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nice to know BL, though that is quite a different game system with different mechanics and points values. I think it would be worth focusing on getting it balanced in Epic Armageddon first