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Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts

 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 20 Jan. 2009, 18:13 )

Well, I've always liked the +2 for both. It seems that +2 to rally is going to come back anyway.

Good to hear that.  :)

What about +2 for Engage actions, then? Is it too powerful? I think Tyranids needs it right now.

For spawning, my idea was allowing after each rally. This would mean hold and marshall as well.


That would be nice, it would give the 'nids something to do when they fail their activations.

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Impressive battle report, armies and board.

I agree with most of your analysis of Tyranids. Having Hormagaunts, Termagants, etc count towards Combat Resolution is a killer for Nids- even if they launch the assault, chances are their opponent will have the advantage in kills. And in the likely chance they're assaulted by the enemy first...well, pain.

How powerful would it be for the Expendable rule to include Combat Resolution- i.e. ignore Brood deaths?
I think it may be necessary, especially since the odds of Nids launching the assault are so slim.

The second point, that Nids are slow. Compared to other infantry, they swarm rapidly across the board...except all other infantry have the option to buy transports, so in practice everyone else can be faster.
A doubling Nid unit gets 40/30cm, a doubling Marine or IG mech unit gets 65cm...
Coupled with Nids needing to get within 20-15cm where Marines and IG can afford to stay at 45cm and shoot, it hurts doubly.

As for the game, could you have made more use of the buildings? 4+ cover saves in defence as the Marines engage.


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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:09 pm 
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Excellent report and nice armies. :) Thanks.

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:06 am 
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Terrific report Hojyn! I'd like to offer advice on tactics, but sadly my recent wins have been based on sneaky objective grabbing rather overwhelming devouring...

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:24 am 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 20 Jan. 2009, 19:28 )

As for the game, could you have made more use of the buildings? 4+ cover saves in defence as the Marines engage.

Well, I tried to but I had too many 'nids and not enough buildings.  :p

And for some reason, Flogus kept on shooting at those units outside the buildings...  :laugh:





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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:28 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ 20 Jan. 2009, 18:13 )

Edit: Actually I originally wanted +1 to engage, +2 to rally, no retain modifier :smile:.

I thought about something along those lines too: Tyranids ignore BMs when passing action tests.

But a simple +2 to Engage/rally would probably be better. Both your suggestion and mine allow the 'nids to ignore part of the basic rules, which may be perceived as unfair by your opponent.

Quote: (Markconz @ 21 Jan. 2009, 07:06 )

Terrific report Hojyn! I'd like to offer advice on tactics, but sadly my recent wins have been based on sneaky objective grabbing rather overwhelming devouring...


Thanks.  :)) Yes, I re-read your reports after writing mine and I noticed that you'd used faster units (Harridan) and "sneakier" units (Stealers). As has been remarked, my army was probably a bit low on activations.





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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Nice report and nice armies. From where did you get your blastmarkers? :)

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Nice report, very enjoyable to read.  :cool:

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Expendable cannot be grot rule. It would be too good. One might consider that terma/horma might get 6+ save in assault, which could remove 1 or 2 deaths from resolution? Also problem with fixed bonuses to assault (like Inspiring) is that it doesn't encourage to larger swarms, which I think the list should encourage for. Never mind that Tyranids aren't really "Inspired" that much


Then I'm not sure how Tyranid infantry swarms are supposed to ever win Engagements?

First off, the chances of them causing the Engagagement rather than being engaged themselves is slim due to slow movement and Strategy Rating 1.

It's very advantageous for an opponent to engage the infantry swarm at distance (i.e. Firefight), because it's near the only way to Break a swarm, and it's easy to do so.

Secondly, it needs to be repeated how incredibly easy it is to beat Nids infantry swarms in Engagements. The sheer number of Gaunt bodies that can rack up just overwhelms any bonuses the Nids had (BM, numbers, etc) which may not be any due to enemy starting the engagement.

At this stage Hormagaunts and Termagants are a liability, a liability you have to put up with in order to access Uncommon Broods. By putting them in a formation, your giving the opponent free kills in engagements, drastically reducing your chances of winning.

I have 2 Warrior led infantry swarms, but am considering dropping to 1 for more War Engine spam, as they just don't cut it in the list.

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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:46 pm 
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How about giving Nids additional outnumbering bonuses beyond +2 for more than double? Would that help anything?

[non-cumulative]
+1 for outnumbering enemy formation
+2 for outnumbering twice or more
+3 for outnumbering thrice or more (Nids only)
+4 for outnumbering four times or more (Nids only)

Also maybe Nids could calculate their outnumbering modifiers BEFORE engagement rather than after?


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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:52 pm 
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It's a possibility, but with the inevitable massacre of dozens of Gaunts, Nid infantry swarms often don't outnumber (or by very little) the enemy anyway.


A compromise for me would be that Hormagaunt/Termagants don't count towards Combat Res. So other Brood stuff, Carnies, Dactylis, etc still matters.

This makes the Gaunts literally expendable, dispensed as casually as other armies dispense bullets.

Call it the 'Without Number' rule. The Nid's always have more, so don't care about losing them.


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 Post subject: Tyranids vs. SM - 3000 pts
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:34 pm 
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Quote: (Jeridian @ 21 Jan. 2009, 11:52 )

Then I'm not sure how Tyranid infantry swarms are supposed to ever win Engagements?

First off, the chances of them causing the Engagagement rather than being engaged themselves is slim due to slow movement and Strategy Rating 1.

It's very advantageous for an opponent to engage the infantry swarm at distance (i.e. Firefight), because it's near the only way to Break a swarm, and it's easy to do so.

Secondly, it needs to be repeated how incredibly easy it is to beat Nids infantry swarms in Engagements. The sheer number of Gaunt bodies that can rack up just overwhelms any bonuses the Nids had (BM, numbers, etc) which may not be any due to enemy starting the engagement.


It's a possibility, but with the inevitable massacre of dozens of Gaunts, Nid infantry swarms often don't outnumber (or by very little) the enemy anyway.


From my limited experience, I can only agree with you.

A compromise for me would be that Hormagaunt/Termagants don't count towards Combat Res. So other Brood stuff, Carnies, Dactylis, etc still matters.

This makes the Gaunts literally expendable, dispensed as casually as other armies dispense bullets.

Call it the 'Without Number' rule. The Nid's always have more, so don't care about losing them.

Another possibility would be to make Expendable would just like the Grot rule (i.e. "do no count in assault resolution") and to give it only to Gaunts and to make Raveners and Gargoyles Brood (1) to still make them attractive. So the 'nid player would have the choice between better troops or cannon fodder, all for the same "brood price".





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