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Gargant Big Mob list development

 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:26 pm 
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Well my suggestion, unsurprisingly is to include faster formations and consider alternative weaponry, mainly because I strongly dislike messing with units and formations from the "core" lists.

That said, it is also significant that the Ghazgul Ork list is not performing well in the E-UK tournaments. At the risk of de-railing the discussion, has anyone reviewed why that might be? The point being that those improvements (once thought through) may well assist this list.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Would you mind stating thoose suggestions again? What units and weapons do you think the list could use?

Well , one change that could help would be lowering costs of Stompas, Battlefortresses and Gunfortresses. Very usefull units but to expensive as they stand right now. For the Stompas i think they are well costed in this list. Battle- and Gunfortresses to maybe 100 and 110 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:43 am 
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My earlier thought was that the faster Ork formations could be included (war band, kult of speed, blitz brigade), possibly restricted to one per Gargant. Note, this kind of constraint might also take the sting out of the air assault list. Others can suggest alternative weaponry.

I have no specific suggestions for improving the Ghazgul list, but some of your thoughts about costings might work; the main issue is the way the list is structured around purchasing individual units, which means that small changes in costs are likely to have large impacts.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:08 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
You realize that the gargants being slow has nothing to to with the format of the list. It's the stats they've always had.

The stompas, lootas, killa kans, supa-stompas, gargants, great gargants and mega gargants all have a move of 15cm.
The only units that has more movement is the battle fortress (which in their current form can't be used by the Lootas since the formation is too big to fit in a fortress) and tve flak wagons you can upgrade the formations with.

So the list is slow. Veeeery slow. It's one of the drawbacks of the list. And it's very crippling to the goal to make it competetive since the game mechanics makes it kinda hard to be that without the possibility of moving around the table to grab objectives.

Theres a couple of ways to mitigate this drawback:

1. Put in more fast units into the list. This will make it more like the Ghazkuul list which isn't a great thing.
2. Make it possible for the gargants to move a little faster (a 20cm move isn't that fast by the way, do you guys think of a Gorgon as a fast unit too??) by introducing an upgrade like the reinforced boilers.
3. Make the Battle fortresses more usefull by making sure the Lootas can actually fit into them.
4. Put back Landas or even Drop Rocks into the list and make air assaults possible again. This option make the list waaaay to OP IMO since gargants and air assaults deep into enemy territory is a crazy powerfull list synergy.
5. Other options i haven't thought of...

As I said earlier, i agree that some kind of risk could be cool to include into the boilers upgrade, it feels very Orky. But to make it so bad that it stops a 6-800 formation from moving or blowing it up is just too much.


Absolutely, the list is slow and this is because it is a gargant list. My contention is that trying to mitigate this by "making the gargants faster if you give them an upgrade" is not really a solution. Obviously it means that the only lists that work are the ones that take the upgrade. This wouldn't be a terrible thing if the upgrade is not thought of as an upgrade per se, but rather an enhancement for the list (something like the arguments in favour of giving ravenwing/white scars/saim-hann the walker rule). As it stands, it just looks odd to me to have the power of the list revolve around one of the many upgrades available.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:45 am 
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Hi, I'm planning a gargant army of my own and had some thoughts.

1. Why not a kill kan/dreadnought unit? If the idea is to be a walker based army?
Normal mob - 5 kans (25 each) or dreads (35 each) and so on. Would be an alternative to fighta spam.

2. Why not allow stompas to have 0-1 oddboys in the mob? Would perhaps make them more enticing.

3. Kustom weapon "Zupa Shook Gun". 45cm MW4+ TK(D3) hits bypass any power or void shields.
Read the fluff on shook attack gun to see the reasoning behind this.

4. The rules already allow for customization on the supa stompa (ccw or more dakka) why not go all the way, remove 2 weapons and allow 2 Kustoms? With hje appropriate points reduction of course.

5. I liked the idea of a supa stompa mob. Normal mob 1 supa stompa 325 points (allows 2 support options). With greater size allowing more support.

Just food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Hi, a test of a reinforced boiler damage rule in this game.
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/20 ... a-tau.html

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Another Kustom Weapon idea.
Based on the fluff for the bubblechucka.
Bubblebursta 60cm MW 1+d3 TK(D3), IC

The Fluffs speaks about the varying size of the warpbubble created, so either a random nr of BP or random MW value (2-4).
It could be argued that it's an unnecessary roll, but it feels thematic.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Another battle report. No reinforced boilers this game, didn't need them for strategy I was using this game, but lost due to stupidity on my part.
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/20 ... a-tau.html

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Thanks for the report mate! Very interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:30 pm 
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Shoel wrote:
Hi, I'm planning a gargant army of my own and had some thoughts.

1. Why not a kill kan/dreadnought unit? If the idea is to be a walker based army?
Normal mob - 5 kans (25 each) or dreads (35 each) and so on. Would be an alternative to fighta spam.

2. Why not allow stompas to have 0-1 oddboys in the mob? Would perhaps make them more enticing.

3. Kustom weapon "Zupa Shook Gun". 45cm MW4+ TK(D3) hits bypass any power or void shields.
Read the fluff on shook attack gun to see the reasoning behind this.

4. The rules already allow for customization on the supa stompa (ccw or more dakka) why not go all the way, remove 2 weapons and allow 2 Kustoms? With hje appropriate points reduction of course.

5. I liked the idea of a supa stompa mob. Normal mob 1 supa stompa 325 points (allows 2 support options). With greater size allowing more support.

Just food for thought.


1. Yes, this has been mentioned before and i have thought about it. Could be an interesting unit. I would probably have 6 for 150 to make them interesting enough to challenge Fighter-Bombas as viable choices.
2. That is a very interesting idea! I like it. This would make the Oddboy different from other orks lists though. And thats not optimal.
3. Thats way too powerfull IMO!
4. Well, that is doable but might make the Supa-Stompa a little too good to be honest. See answer to no 5 also.
5. They where mobs before but 2 Supa-Stompas was actually a better choice than 1 gargant (potential for more shields etc). A Supa-Stompa mob was almost like a no brainer choice which isn't good for a list. A supa-stompa should be a sidekick in the gargant list, not the main actor. I'll rather keep making the Gargants better.

Thanks for all the great ideas. I will take them into account in future development!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:31 am 
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Thanks for considering my thoughts.
2. I missremembered the rule for oddboy, thought he was "upgrade one big gun to...." And that the guns that could be updated were regulated by ehich formations had access to oddboys. My mistake (but I like my way better :-).
3. It is only powerfull vs two opponents, AMTL and itself. Against any other opponent you sacrifice range for no benefit. And from what I surmised from this thread AMTL are stronger than the gargant list (or have I misunderstood?).

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:54 pm 
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Played a pretty fun game the other day using the list against a Saim-Hann list. This is what I used:
Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Gargant Bigmob (3.2.1 - Developmental)
==================================================
GARGANT [625]
Soopa Zzap Gun, 2 Gatling Kannon, (Kustom) Reinforced Boiler, (Kustom) Wyrdboy Tower
GARGANT [600]
3 Gatling Kannon, (Kustom) Wyrdboy Tower, (Kustom) Reinforced Boiler
GARGANT [675]
3 Mega Lobba, (Kustom) Wyrdboy Tower, (Kustom) Reinforced Boiler
SUPA STOMPA [350]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz
LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [225]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Killa Kan, Big Gunz, Oddboy
LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [225]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Killa Kan, Big Gunz, Oddboy
FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers
FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

The lootas were a good distraction though died easy. The shooting was once again very underwhelming and I took as much shooty as I could get. The 3 Lobbas on the on Gargant really couldn't kill anything but they were damn good a putting down blastmarkers. The Supa stomp actually did the most dmg when I successfully activated for a sustained fire and killed all but three units in a large windrider formation. The gargants didn't do much other than holding objectives well. In the end I lost 2:0 mostly because everything is SOOO SLOW and my opponent while having much less in the way of points was exceptionally faster and rallied infinitly better and I just couldn't keep up dispite inflicting about twice the dmg (points wise) as I took.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Hello everyone!

It's been very quiet here for a while. The reason for that is that we've been playing alot of Infinity latly and when it comes to epic I've been concentrating on building my DE larmy.

But now we should get things going soon again! Theres been alot of suggestions about weapons. I'm gonna concentrate on tweaking gun costs and maybe adding/changing a few options.

I do have 2 things I would like to test:

1. Take out 1 Killa Kan from the lootas and lower them 25p. This to make it possible for them to actually use the Battlefortress upgrade they have available.

2. Add a formation of 6/12/18 Killa Kans for 150/275/400p to the support formations. Because they fit in the walker theme and lots of Killa kans are very badass! 8) (idea stolen from Shoel)

Comments on this?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Well spotted on the lootas, I allways assumed that if I choose big guns they could be transported in the battlefortress (but it says max of one big gun").
Consequently I see no reason to ever bring a battlefortress.

And feel free to steal any of my good ideas :-)

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