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Space Wolves

 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:01 am 
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I had a thought about your SW list, Ilushia: I still don't like the Mjolnir as I really don't think they fit (as much as I like the name!). I was thinking what would the SWs actually use against War Machines then... how about the Scouts?

Their purpose is to move behind enemy lines and take out serious threats via sneakiness... if you gave them Sniper as a unit ability and an extra MW FF attack for meltaguns, they'd be a very serious threat to even big WE like gargants...

Any more progress on the list? Haven't heard anything for a while...


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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:10 am 
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Not sure anyone is interested but here is a cut down version out of an old SW codex

CHAPTER ORGANISATION
Space Wolves are a First Founding Chapter:

THE GREAT COMPANIES
Space Wolves Chapter is divided into twelve 'Great Companies'. Each Great Company is led by a Wolf Lord, a warrior whose only
master is the Great Wolf himself. Each Great Company has its own headquarters and territory within the Space Wolves' massive
Chapter fortress and its own spacecraft, weapons, forges and other facilities. In almost all respects, it is a separate, self sufficient body Of Warriors.
Companies are not fixed as are the companies other Space Marine Chapters but change through the ages as one leader succeeds another Each Wolf Lord chooses a symbol or badge from the ancient legends of Fenris as his emblem.

THE COMPANY OF THE GREAT WOLF
In addition to the twelve Great Companies, there is the household of the Great Wolf himself.
The Company of The Great Wolf is effectively another company but it differs from the Great Companies in some important respects. The Company of the Great Wolf is home to all the Chapter's Wolf Priests, Iron Priests and Rune Priests. It is also where all the Chapter's Space Marine Dreadnoughts are kept in stasis to extend their lives, The Great Wolf's emblem is always the same, unlike the emblems of the Great Companies which are the personal badges of their Wolf Lords. This is the Wolf That Stalks Between Stars; the ancient badge of Russ himself and the symbol carried on the Chapter's banner.

WOLF GUARD
Every Wolf Lord has a personal retinue of picked Space Marine warriors called the Wolf Guard. The Wolf Guard accompanies its Wolf Lord in battle, and consists of the most mighty warriors in the Great Company. The remaining troops in each Great Company are divided into four groups of Space Wolves warriors: the Grey Hunters, the Blood Claws, the Long Fangs; and the Scouts, Grey Hunters are proven warriors of ability, Blood Claws arc glory hungry young warriors, Long Fangs are older, steadfast warriors armed with heavy weapons; while the Scouts arc ferocious fighters who prefer to operate alone.

SPACE WOLF PACKS
Warriors of the Great Companies fight in squads known as packs. A Space Wolf joins his pack when he joins the Chapter as a Blood Claw; and a pack will remain together throughout the members" service in the Chapter. The only way a Space Wolf can leave his pack is through death,: or by being asked to join the Wolf Guard or the Space Wolf Scouts. Having a pack-brother join the Wolf Guard or Scouts is considered a great honour for the pack. As a Space Wolf warrior becomes older and increasingly battle-wise, his role within the Great Company changes - At first he fights with the Blood Claws, where hand -to hand combat is all important and where hot-blooded aggression is directed to tasks such as seizing enemy outposts and driving foes out of forward positions. Mature Space Wolves who are at the peak of their powers are called Grey Hunters: Grey Hunters make up the majority of the Great Companies. They are experienced warriors, dour
and sombre, proud of their skills and rightly honoured by their younger comrades. The oldest warriors are called Long Fangs in recognition of their age and experience. Long Fangs arc battle-wise and cunning they are steadfast in adversity it is said that the)
are always the last to retreat from a battle
New members are never added to a pack , so as the pack grows older and more experienced, the inevitable casualties the pack suffers reduces its numbers. For this reason, a pack of Blood Claws will usually have more members than a pack of Grey Hunters, who likewise usually have more members than packs of Long Fangs. Even when a pack is reduced to one of two members it will not be disbanded. Instead its members will be asked to act as leaders for Blood Claw packs that have just been formed. In this way the most experienced members of the Chapter are able to teach the newest recruits of the Chapter's proud history and of what it
means to be a member of a Space Wolves pack.

SPACE WOLVES SCOUTS
In most Chapters, New Space Marines are initiated into the Scout Company and only once they have proven themselves there do they become fully - fledged Spate Marines. It appears that this is not the case with the Space Wolves .

When a Fernisian warrior has undertaken his final trial, he is welcomed by all as a brother Space Wolf., he will be inducted into the company as a member of a new Blood Claws pack As time passes the new Blood Claws will prove themselves in battle. The majority will remain with their pack for their entire time in the Chapter but some will show exceptional prowess in battle and will
be inducted into the Wolf Guard, while others will instead become Space Wolves Scouts. Fenrisians are usually a sociable and gregarious race, but there have always been some amongst their number who are said to be touched by Lokyar, the great Lone Wolf of Fentisian. Such warriors cannot act as full members of a pack, so they will be inducted into the Scouts where their individual nature and natural talents can be given full reign. Here, amongst fellow warriors of a similar temperament, they form an elite unit which ranges ahead of the rest of the Company and acts as its eyes and ears."

There is also a 13th company but not sure it was official. I think it is from The Fith Horseman. I have been away for some time and can't remember.

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:06 am 
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I am trying to learn how to put a photo on here.
A photo of some old company and detachment cards to compare SW with other chapters.

Could use some help but if it takes computer lingo might as well forget it as I won't have any idea what you are saying.

In the mean time I will post it to the yahoo netepic group.

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:41 am 
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Hey Lion, looks like you cleaned up the list since we worked on it. It has been ?while.
I have been looking at this topic wondering why they were reinventing the wheel.
I haven't had time to look closely at either list yet but the one thing I noticed about the new list is that it only has Wolf Guard as terminators. All terminators are wolf guard but not all wolfguard are terminators.

I need to get a printed copy and compare it whith the last version I had.
I like the improvised new tank though. It is keeping in character of what the Wolves would do.

I gave up trying to track the changing GW fluff. I never gave a hoot about tourney play. I am pretty old school when it comes to the Wolves. I still think it was idotic not having a list for the wolves from the begining since they are the most different chapter of all.

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:47 am 
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Oi. Been a while since I delt with this. Sorry I've been away for so long.... Making Scouts have Sniper as an ability and a MW fire-fight attack might well do for anti-tank/anti-warengine tactics. I'll give that one some thought. Sorry it's been so long since I responded to this stuff... Life's been entirely too busy lately.


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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:51 am 
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I know that feeling, Ilushia.

Gary, my guess is that they hadn't seen my old list when it was on the SG forums, and so ended up writing one of their own.  That reminds me, I need to rebuild the list (it seems it's still missing the Long Fangs, and I've changed computer systems).

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:58 am 
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I did link them to it...

But to be fair, I've made a few lists from scratch quite deliberately ignoring all that's gone before. They may well come up with some cool stuff not thought of before.


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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:53 am 
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Hey Lion. Unless I am blind (a posibility) You lost the unit description for the Long Fangs in your list.

I must be blind. I just read your post. :O

I dug this out of the archives. It shows the comparisons from all the old codexes of Space Marines. There is also a listing of all weapons from 40k in EA stats.

Especially interesting is the long Fang/devastator and wolf scout/SM scout


Look at the size of and possible weapons load of the squads.

I am getting confused with the different sites. I prefer here but keep checking for lost soles on the SG forum.

I am really a NetEpic guy but try to keep a foot in the EA door. EA has a lot of good things but are to closed and rigid as compared to NetEpic. As someone used to say... It is better to expand the game than restrict the players.
Anyone surprised that I have Smurfs, Slann/Necron and working on Skaven armies. Also have parts of 10 different Chapters, IG, Squat, Eldar and lots of orks (by Clan). I only have 2 beatle back Titans, and tw of the scout titans. Grunts. ...lots and lots of grunts. ?:p


I finally got my codexes from home. They are not the new ones that just came out but to compare different units in EA they should be close. This is to help in the evaluation of units when converting to EA or adjusting for new "Chapters". Also EA weapon stats below.
I was very supprised at the number of people arguing about squad weapons that didn't seem to know what they were talking about. I have not put point cost in because to be frank, weapons cost are not consistant even in the same codex. I will try to add other information as time permits. Old time Epic players (including me) please note the differences in "Space Wolf" organization. This is meant to be a reference not a bible. I hope it is useful.

Tactical[5-10] [bolters]
>1 Hvy Bltr, msl lnchr, lascannon:
>1 flamer, meltagun or plasma gun:

Grey Hunters [6-10][bolt pistol & CC wpn or Bolter & CC wpn]
>2 PwrWpn or powerfist:
>2 plasma pistols:
>1 Flamer, meltagun or plasma gun:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Devastator [5-10] [bolters]
>4 Hvy bltr, msl lnchr, lascannon, multi-melta or plasma cannon:
[Sergeant: bolter or bolt pistol & CC wpn]

Long Fangs [3-5]* [bolters]
>4 Hvy bltr, msl lnchr, lascannon, multi-melta or plasma cannon:
[Pack Leader: Blt Pstl & (CC Wpn, PwWpn or plasma pstl) or bltr &CC wpn
or flamer,meltagun or plasma gun]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assault [5-10] [bolt pistol, CC wpn & frag grenades: jump packs]
>2 plasma pistols

Blood Claws[8-15] [bolt pistol, CC wpn & grenades]
>1 in 5 PwrWpn or powerfist: and plasma pistol:
>1 Flamer, melta gun or plasma gun:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Death Company [bolter or bolt pistol & CC wpn and grenades]
?Rhinos? or ?jump packs?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scout [5-10] [bolt pistol & CC wpn or bolter or shotgun or sniper rifle]
>1 Hvy Bltr, autocannon or msl lnchr:

Wolf Scout [4-6] [bolt pistol & CC wpn or bolter or shotgun]
>2 sniper rifle or plasma pistol:
>2 Power weapons:
>1 flamer, melta gun or plasma gun:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bike [3-5] [twin-linked bolters][bolters]
>2 flamers, meltaguns or plasma guns:

Blood Claws Bike [3-8][twin-linked bolters][bolt pistol or CC Wpn]
>2 PwrWpn, power fist or plasma pistol
>1 flamer, meltagun or plasma gun

Scout Bike [3-5] [twin-linked bolters][bolt pistol, bolter or shotgun] [?Walker?]

Attack Bike [1-3] [twin-linked bolters & Hvy bolter or multi-melta][bolt pistol]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dreadnought
left arm - [CC wpn w/storm bolter]
replace strm bltr with Hvy Flamer
replace CCwpn with missile launcher

right arm - assault cannon, twin-linked Hvy bolter, twin-linked autocannon, multi-melta,
plasma cannon or twin-linked lascannon

Venerable Dreadnought
left arm - [CC wpn w/storm bolter]
replace strm bltr with Hvy Flamer:
replace CCwpn with missile launcher

right arm - assault cannon, twin-linked Hvy bolter, twin-linked autocannon, multi-melta,
plasma cannon or twin-linked lascannon

Furioso Dreadnought
left arm - [CC wpn w/storm bolter]
replace strm bltr with Hvy Flamer

right arm - [CC wpn w/meltagun]

* note: (1) normal full strength "Long Fang" squad is 5 men or one unit/stand in "Epic".
(2) normal full strength "Devastator" squad is 10 men or two units/stands in "Epic".
(3) normal full strength "Blood Claw squad is 15 men or three units/stands in "Epic".
(4) "Wolf Guard" are bodyguards for "command units" and added to Units as "Wolf Guard Battle Leaders". They are not used in Detachments (including "Terminators").


Here are some other stats from EA units. Only have SM, IG, Ork, Eldar, BL and Squat weapons.
I will add others as time permits.

Small Arms weapons:

FF
6+ Laspistol; Shoota;
5+ Bolt Pistol; Shotgun; Ripper Gun; Shuriken Pistol; Nobz Shootas;
4+ Bolter; Lasgun; Hellgun; Shuriken Catapult; Las Blaster; Death Spinner;
3+ Storm Bolter; Sonic Blaster; Combi-Bolter;

15cm Range Heavy Weapons:

AP5+/AT5+ Plasma Gun;
AP4+ Heavy Flamer; Skorcha; (Ignore cover & FF+1Attack)
MW5+ Multi-Melta; Fusion Gun; Wraith Cannon-2Attacks; (FFMW)

30cm Range Heavy Weapons:

AP6+/AT6+ Big Shoota;
AP5+ Heavy Bolter; Heavy Stubber; Sniper Rifle;
AP5+/AT6+ Multilaser;
AP5+/AT5+ Assault Cannon; Twin-Big Shoota; Scatter Laser; Kombat A'mmer-also CCweapon;
AP5+/AT5+/AA6+ Flak Gun-2 Attacks;
AP4+ Twin-Heavy Bolter;
AP4+/AT6+ Reaper Autocannon;
AP4+/AT5+ Blast Master;
AP4+/AT4+ Twin-Assault Cannon; Plasma Cannon-slow fire;
AP3+ Inferno Cannon- Ignore cover;
AP3+/AT4+ Demolisher- Ignore cover;
MW5+ D-Cannon; Wailing Doom-also MWCC;
MW4+ Gaze of Mork- TK;

45cm Range Heavy Weapons:

AP6+/At4+ Tarantula;
AP6+/AT5+/AA5+ Thunderfire- 2 Attacks
AP5+ Reaper Missile Launcher- 2 Attacks;
AP5+/AT6+ Missile Launcher; Autocannon; Heavy Weapon;
AP5+/AT5+/AA5+ Body Weapons- 3 AttACKS;
AP4+/AT6+ Thudd Gun;
AP4+/AT5+ Twin-Autocannon;
AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ Hydra;
AP3+/AT5+ Twin-Typhoon Missile;
AT5+ Lascannon;
AT4+ Twin-Lascannon;
MW5+/AA5+ Fist of Gork;
1BP Whirlwind-Indirect Fire; Squig Katapult-Disrupt;
2BP Siege Mortar- Indirect Fire, Ignore cover, Slow fire;

60cm Range Heavy Weapons

AT4+/AA4+ Hunter-Killer
2BP MW Soopa Gun
3BP MW Twin-Soopa Gun;

75cm Range Heavy Weapons:

AP4+/AT4+ Battle Cannon; Defiler Cannon- or 1BP Indirect Fire;
AP4+/AT2+ Vanquisher Cannon;

90cm Range Heavy Weapons:

MW2+ Volcano Cannon-TK(D3)

120cm Range Heavy Weapons:

AP4+/AT4+ 0r 1BP Earth Shaker Cannon;

150cm Range Heavy Weapons:

2BP Rocket Launcher-Disrupt, Slow Fire;

EA CC values and weapons: [weapons combinations are entered as they "may"
or "may not" effect the CC value]

cc

6+ Sniper Rifle; Shuriken Catapult; Scatter Laser;
Grotz Shootas;Reaper Missile Launchers:

5+ Lasgun; Death Spinner; Lasblaster; Fusion Guns; Hellgun & Plasgun;
Dier Avengers Shuriken Catapult; 2 Heavy Weapons; 2 Missile Launchers:

4+ Bolter; Bolt Pistol & Shotgun; Chain Sword & Laspistol; Choppers;
Ogryn Close Combat Weapon; Sonic Blaster; Power Lance; Wraith Cannon;
Mandiblaster & Shuriken Pistol(+1A):

4+MW+1A Power Weapon; Wichblade & Shuriken Pistol:

3+ Chain Sword & Bolt Pistol; Chain Sword & Bolter; Big Choppa;
Plaque Knives & Bolter; Bansheemask & Shuriken Pistol(1st Strike):
Body Weapons;

3+MW+1A Power Weapon & Combi-Bolter; Power Axe:

3+MW+2A TK Daemeon Weapons:

2+ Chain Axe & Polt Pistol:

2+MW+1A Wailing doom:

wolf1





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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:54 am 
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No offense to the work you guys have done here, but I really prefer the list I wrote.  It just seems to work better for me.  (Reminds me, I also need to work on the DA list.)

Gary, do you have the stats for the Long Fangs we came up with?  I could pull a rough approximation out of what I remember, but I'd prefer to have the exact stats that we'd hashed out.  When I moved (more importantly, changed computers), I seem to have lost all my design notes on the Wolves.

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:58 pm 
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Sorry Lion. My computer crashed also. I am checking all my old disks to see what I can find. My print outs were ruined from a roof leak.
I wil keepyou informed.
Wolf1

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:25 am 
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It's OK.  I've still got the points cost, now I just need to remember whether the Long Fangs were 4x Missile Launchers or 3x ML, then I can start prettifying the list with fluff and maybe even some pictures, since I need to rebuild it anyway.

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:04 pm 
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Lion,
Still looking. I have found one version of the list but no stats.
It has Long Fangs at 65 points (with 3 msl lchr) or 95 with 4.
It must be one of the earlier lists.

I have no big objection in keeping original stats and just changing names and org but IMO is much better with the stat changes.

The problem with EA is not the game it is the overly restricted lists. To much wory about a point here or a point there. I much prefer to build an army as IMO it should look, not what is the perfect balance for a tournament.

The new guys don't seem to care much for our past work.  :(  Oh well. Maybe they will stumble across something we didn't think of.  :p

Have you tried to find the old thread?
My computer seems to be dying again. Trying to get everything on disks before I lose everything again.

I will see if I can fint the old thread again. Maybe I will get lucky.

I had your list translated in to Army Builder2 and working on it for AB3 but lost it all.


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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:14 pm 
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The problem with EA is not the game it is the overly restricted lists. To much wory about a point here or a point there. I much prefer to build an army as IMO it should look, not what is the perfect balance for a tournament.


I believe both a 'wide' list and tournament-balanced list can be achieved in the same document... sure it takes a little more thought but there's nothing wrong with that.

Even Jervis (The apparent ultimate tourney-balance guy) originally intended to add new units to pre-existing army lists every so often (Check Question 2 in the 'GENERAL QUESTIONS' section of the Q&A in the Epic: Armageddon rulebook for how he intended to do that), which is quite contrary to the 'set in stone' / tournament official philosophy that is now prevailent.





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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:14 pm 
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Ilushia: I do like the Mjolnir and I really  think they do fit what the wolves would do. On the other hand I don' like the name!  :D  but not a problem.  :p

I think many players are infected by the Inqusition and can't think outside the box. Be careful, the Inquisition is very unforgiving!  :laugh:  The codex is a guideline not a bible.   Oh oh! gota run.... I see about a dozen Thunder Hawks approaching .... they may get me this time!

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 Post subject: Space Wolves
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:23 pm 
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Lion,
Just found this. It is the latest I could find.
This was in the old thread. However, I am fairly sure the points were higher the last time we spoke.

There is a good argument for 4 msl lnchrs  since by the codex they could have up to 5 heavy weapons for a five man squad.

Devastators are 250 points with two shots but also have transport included. That is 6 units with 8 shots.

Long Fangs are 4 units with 16 shots. Very powerful but very vulnerable. They are 300 points for 4 but are 340 points with Rhino transport.

(before the out cry, everyone should remember SW's transport is not included in their cost on your list)

Long Fangs:
INF/15cm/4+/5+/2+
Bolters
4x missile launchers, 45cm range, AP5+/AT6+
Notes: Fearless

Long Fangs: 4 Long Fang units
Upgrades: Space Wolf Character, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Dreadnought, Hunter, Land Raider
Cost: 300 points

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