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Tactica	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:36 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Dysartes, The AMTL list went through some lengths to come up with light incinerator gun for the warhound titans, but the Tsons and BL list both have the effective incinerator gun mounted on their warhound titans. Shouldn't there be a standard? _________________ Rob
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Tactica	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:41 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	*OR* vs. *AND* So in reading through the BL list, I noticed things like the Banelord that have "Doom Fist" and the "Tail" that both have *OR* options to them. When I look at a unit like Flamers, they have a weapon called "Flames of Tzeentch" which have an *AND* option to them. Does this mean that when I buy a Banelord, I have to pick between which type of gun effect I want for the Doom Fist and Tail weapons at the beginning of the game, but the Flamers have two modes of fire for their gun? If so, some clarification to the bottom of the *OR* weapons data sheets would be helpful - like JG does in the Tau list - so players are clearly taking only one or the other option - and not both. If I'm incorrect, then can somebody explain the difference between the *OR* and the *AND* for me? _________________ Rob
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nealhunt	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:15 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	On its face, AND means you get to do both at the same time and OR means you have to choose one. In most cases, the weapon lines are a ranged shot and an assault shot of some kind.  Since it's impossible for a unit to use both a ranged and an assault attack at the same time, there is no functional difference betwen AND and OR.  You simply use whichever is appropriate at the time. OTOH, some of them (Basilisks and Eldar Power Fist) will have 2 options that are either ranged or assault attacks.  In that case, if it says OR you have to pick which mode to use at the time of the attack. Any weapon kit choices are explained in the Notes section like Ork Gargants.  Otherwise, if it's listed, you get it. _________________ Neal
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nealhunt	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:20 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Quote (Tactica @ 08 2005 Aug.,16:36) The AMTL list went through some lengths to come up with light incinerator gun for the warhound titans, but the Tsons and BL list both have the effective incinerator gun mounted on their warhound titans. Shouldn't there be a standard? Not that I'm Dysartes, but as long as they are different weapons, they can have different stats.  The Hellmouth on the Feral titan is going to have a very different role than the Inferno Gun and the Ferals are paying a 50 point premium for better weaponry.  I don't have a problem with them being different. As far as the TSons list, the stats it has are just the ones that happened to be in the AMTL list at the time I drafted the list.  I'm waiting until the AMTL and BL lists settle down before I decide what direction to take the Suns of Damnation Warhounds.  I may pick one of them or I may decide to go with a third set of stats or I may use an existing stat line because it's been playtested and just "Tzeentch-ify" the name. _________________ Neal
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Tactica	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	NH, Thanks for heads up on and/or above. Just to be clear on the additional 50 points you mention for the feral... For its 50 points, it has three weapon systems not two, right? It's version of the gatling system is Death Storm and is equally good against AP as well as AT shots. I actually thing this makes it a more versatile piece. In place of a 45cm slow firing MW plasma blast gun (basically a single shot) it instead receives a Hellmouth which has proven to be really strong on a fast moving titan in the AMTL list - 3BP blast that ignores cover and in this case is furthermore a Macro weapon! That's pretty sick. Especially if you have two of them in a formation! This thing is way better than any single shot plasma blast gun even though you only have 30cm range - so what, you can move 70 then fire 30... 105cm is nothing to be disappointed with when you have ignores cover + macroweapon blast! In addition, it receives a third weapon system that the traditional warhound doesn't get, it has a Battlehead which gives it +2 extra attacks - small arms. Now I did notice that the FF value continued to be decrimented by one in v3.5 by comparison to the Imperial warhound. However the Battlehead gives it back 2 more attacks in FF giving it the possibility to actually do more damage than the regular warhound and about the same statistical damage as the warhound if both are rolling typically. I'm not sure 50 points is enough for all the upticks compared to the imperial version warhound, but not trying to argue that point either. I need to playtest the new list before that kind of talk happens. (and hopefully the new list is balanced enought that this doesn't happen!) So back to the original point, should the AMTL warhound be forced to go to a light flamer template version of what currently is a 30cm ignore cover 3bp weapon...  when chaos has taken the same gun on their titans, but adds macro weapon, extra attacks, and an up-ticked gattling gun for +50 points? Anyway, something for the powers that be to think about. I just found the comparison interesting. _________________ Rob
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QuintAan	Post subject: ** New Update - Black Legion 3.5 available Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:17 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:44 pm Posts: 173 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada	Tactica, I believe that the line: Black Legions armies may be supported by Black Legion War Engines, Aircraft and Spacecraft. Up to a third of the points available to the army may be spent on these formations. Refers to the sections: Chaos Titan Legion War Engines

Chaos Navy and Aerospace Units

As such, since the Deathwheels and Decimators are not part of the Chaos Titan Legion War Engines section they are not included in the 1/3 limit. Hence why they have the 0-2 limitation.