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Encouraging news...

 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:52 pm 
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An in depth review can be found
here.

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:28 pm 
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Hi!

Jervis is very proud of Epic A...

...Epic 40k was the "game he was most proud" of...

...and he "no longer" loves SM and thus won't "re-release" it.

Since when does personal taste guide marketing desicions?

I absoultely HATED card games like magic and yet I sold them as a retailer becuase thats what the costumer wanted.

On another matter we are now getting more information on future epic prices and as suspected they are getting higher. For a blister of 3-4 models are 7 pounds about 11.50 dollars depending on exchange rate. Thats up from the previous prices of around 9 dollars, the boxed sets are fortunately a better buy because you can get 10 tanks at around 25 dollars US. Not bad.

The price hike is there, but it may not be crippling, blisters at 10 dollars or less would have been much better. But at least they dont cost 15 bucks like the baneblade did in epic 40k times.

On another note, Jervis says "he regrets Epic 40k split the epic community", well...duh..but what to do about it? Not much. It remains to be seen if the current offering will heal that, or just create another one (which is my guess).

Sometimes I feel Jervis is pretty spiteful towards SM, sorta like "thou shalt remain in oblivion forever because people loved you more than epic 40k". Goes to show that just because the author of a game likes his rules it doesn't mean everyone will. A lesson I feel he has yet to learn..."its not about what jervis wants". Of course, even if he learned it now, a lot good it does epic, the damage ws done long ago. Those golden days wont EVER be back.

At least there should be a good run of new minis which of course will be immediately converted for use in netepic... :L

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:53 am 
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Of course, SM2 or E40K ... it is a personal choice. ? Did Jervis really believe, that E40K would win over everyone playing SM1 or SM2 ? ?And on the other hand, if you like SM2, what difference does it make if E40K is released ? ?The same can be said about E-A vs. E40K or SM2 or whatever. ?We like our set of rules and that works for us. ?I do think that E40K was the most "complete" system and could easily be played out of the box. ?Again, Jervis's comments shows that G/W is artists driven, but we knew that. ?Plus if they did re-released SM2, who says it would have the following it had previously. If G/W wants to keep Epic alive, they must keep trying something different. ?Many gamers who played SM2 or E40K are probably long out of it. ?That's my experience, most former Epic players I know still marvel at the fact that I'm still playing Epic in any form ! ??? ?Just check eBay, there are always gamers "dumping" huge amounts of Epic ... my guess is that they are getting out of Epic, not like me just selling off my extras, as I do here. ?I marvel at that poster on Epic Yahoo, (many of us subscribe to that site too), "Squigger", from Australia, I think. ?He's a rabid SM2 player and vehemently opposes NetEpic or E40K. He asks these long convoluted questions about a system that has long been by passed. ?The questions themselves show that SM2 out-of-the-box was not acceptable. ?I know he lives on an Island in the middle of the South Pacific, but move on ! :angry:  :laugh: (no offense Tas!)  ?And the comments about the Tau and Necron being released in 3-4 years !!! :l ?What version of Epic will be being played then ? ?E-B ? ?E-C ? SM2A1E8 ? ?E40K2.0 ? ?Or will Jervis try to re-release SM1 ? It will be so old by then that everyone who ever played it will be dead or in a Nursing Home ! And Squigger will probably still ?be asking questions about how to play SM2 ! :laugh: ?Bottom line ... G/W will do what It wants to do, and everybody is going to play by what rules they want to, regardless. ?Hoping for any other outcome is like trying to run between the rain drops ...

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:07 am 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 15 2003 Sep.,05:53)
Again, Jervis's comments shows that G/W is artists driven, but we knew that.

but do we...

(we as in the GW community)

there are numerous web forums complaning about the fact that GW is run by the bean counters...

even in WD they stated that the number of miniatures for the new Imperial Guard codex was dictated by the amount of shelf space and not artistic desires...

maybe fanatic is artist-driven!

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:17 am 
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Well - for proof the fact there was a very amusing model of an Ogre cheerleader created ;), I don't see it having massive commerical success as it will appeal to a minority, and it won't shift but it was just a bit of a giggle really.

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:37 am 
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Note: More info has been added to the seminar/chat section.

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:14 pm 
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Maybe I am being dumb, but it is so bad that Fanatic is being run from an artists point of view?

Way back, back in the depths of time, GW was run as a hobby company. It was run by a load of Goths who loved what they did and basically just produced what they wanted. And lo, the people were happy. (DId anyone see the 40K Chaos toilet?)

Now days, people are always complaining that GW is run by the 'bean counters' - the accountants version of the Men in Black. Everything is produced for profit for the share holders, every second release is a Marine and prices are based on how much they can make (sure, GW are going over mainly to plastic, as it is cheaper which is great for the player...).

So, we have the situation where Jervis is maybe not happy with second edition. (I didnt like it either.) I am glad he is owning up to it. OK, so he he doesnt want to rerelease it as he didnt like it so much. I dont think that rereleasing ANY previous version of Epic is a good idea, but if he doesnt want to dedicate a large percentage of his time and reputation to a game that he has no faith in, then that is his decision and I cant see any real flaw in it.

Fanatic now, for my mind, is more like the GW of olde. It is being run by people who actually like what they do. Now, I might not agree with their decisions, but I am glad that this change has happened. One of my big wishes is to have been in the meeting where Jervis went to GW HQ and said that he wanted to start a sister company that dealt with the 'non-profit making' games because he liked them. ?:D

True, it is not about what Jervis wants, but the community is not unanimously in support of second edition, and whatever edition was brought back, there would be a large percentage who were unhappy with the choice. This, coupled with the fact that Jervis feels that third edition was a better game (just his opinion, but he is putting down the rules here) makes that the basis for fourth edition - although I dont know how true that is now.

The golden ages of Epic are gone, and while I really want EpicA to do well I really cant see it getting the coverage and support of the later part of first edition.

EDIT: My spelling is really terrible on a Monday!





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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:23 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 15 2003 Sep.,12:14)
Maybe I am being dumb, but it is so bad that Fanatic is being run from an artists point of view?

personally I don't think of it as a bad thing

(DId anyone see the 40K Chaos toilet?)

see it...

I nearly bought it...

actually in the end I purchased the dwarf on toilet...

why...

I don't know...

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:30 pm 
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Wrote a massive reply then it got lost by a gremlin in the system :'(....

Give me 5 mins to do it again.... :|

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:36 pm 
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Hmmm.. actually lack of time, basically I was agreeing that it wasn't a bad thing.

Jervis explained in the seminar, that 40k and Fantasy don't have the luxury of having fun, it is all a business if they muck up then everyone is out of the job. Fanatic only contributes 5% of GWs income so they can have fun and create some models that don't necessaryly make the most business sense.

For an example see the Ogre cheerleader that resembles every mother in law ever born, it was created only because they 'could' :).

Forgeworld runs on the same lines.

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:07 pm 
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Quote (netepic @ 15 2003 Sep.,12:36)
Hmmm.. actually lack of time, basically I was agreeing that it wasn't a bad thing.

Jervis explained in the seminar, that 40k and Fantasy don't have the luxury of having fun, it is all a business if they muck up then everyone is out of the job. Fanatic only contributes 5% of GWs income so they can have fun and create some models that don't necessaryly make the most business sense.

For an example see the Ogre cheerleader that resembles every mother in law ever born, it was created only because they 'could' :).

Forgeworld runs on the same lines.

One other point to throw into all things games-day, which I dont believe was picked up anywhere else:

All the new sprues are half-sized.
I dont want to start another bitching session about prices, but that means it'll work out to about ?5 for the same amount we got for ?1.50.

In writing that I remembered one other thing:
From the same conversation with Jervis, The metal infantry will now be cast individually and supplied with plastic bases, not in strips at all - its back to the style of AT / SM "Freebie" infantry!

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:19 pm 
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Quote (TuffSkull @ 15 2003 Sep.,13:07)
All the new sprues are half-sized.
I dont want to start another bitching session about prices, but that means it'll work out to about ?5 for the same amount we got for ?1.50.

In writing that I remembered one other thing:
From the same conversation with Jervis, The metal infantry will now be cast individually and supplied with plastic bases, not in strips at all - its back to the style of AT / SM "Freebie" infantry!

That is a shame about the plastics, but not entirely surprising. I had imagined the 2nd Ed sprues to be like the new ones, basically the recent Epic40K sprues, but without the 'specialist half' on them. I am glad that I got loads before they ran out.

And the point about seperate metal troops....  :D  FANTASTIC. That is the best news that I have heard all day.

Portent actually have a picture of EpicA stuff here:

Portent EpicA

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:28 pm 
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I need a camera, like the one used on Portent :'(.

Metal inf news is good, looking forward to getting a load - what do you mean by 'freebie' inf btw?

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:37 pm 
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Quote (netepic @ 15 2003 Sep.,13:28)
I need a camera, like the one used on Portent :'(.

Metal inf news is good, looking forward to getting a load - what do you mean by 'freebie' inf btw?

I mean the little sprues that used to come in the original AT / SM1 era blisters & boxes. The old metal reavers used to come with a metal sprue holding two honour badges & 1 metal SM.

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 Post subject: Encouraging news...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:03 pm 
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That is well cool... would be groovy if they did.

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