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Armageddon beginner questions

 Post subject: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:02 pm 
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Hi, hoping someone can help with a rules question. Am a player returning from 2nd edition Space Marine so trying to get up to speed on Armageddon.

At present I'm building a collection to represent the Heresy battle of Ullanor (so starting small)

1) If you have main detachments (e.g. a Marine tactical detachment) and then add support detachments (e.g. an assault detachment) does the support detachment have to stay in formation with the main detachment? I thought probably not but can't find the rule specifically in the book.

If so, I assume for Orks, that all of the extras are bought as 'upgrades' and so are in formation with that particular horde?

2) If you add an upgrade commander (captain, librarian etc.) do they come on their own stand? Or are they added as a character to an existing tactical stand?

Sorry if stupid questions I am trying to find my feet again with the game!


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Ullanor..."small"...soooomething sounds fishy about that...

1). Each space marine detachment is a separate formation. So a tactical and an assault would operate independently on the battlefield. Upgrades (such as adding hunters to a tactical detachment or ork "extra units") are added to their parent formation and operate together on the battlefield.

2). Most character upgrades have the type of "Character", which means they are not their own stand, but merely an upgraded profile that gets added to a stand. Some however (like the Knight World's Baron) have a proper unit type and thus add a new model/stand to the formation. All the space marine character types are type "CH" and thus do not add a new stand.

And not stupid questions at all, the game can be quite fiddly at times, and every list is written slightly differently, making figuring them all out difficult.

Cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Think of CH types as mechanically being "wargear" you give another unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:36 pm 
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1) The Space Marine list doesn't have "support formations". Where lists do have such a thing (such as IG) they usually spell out that they're separate. See the second paragraph under "Using the Army List" for IG:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/tourna ... -army-list

2) This is answered in the rules for Character:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/tourna ... characters

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:48 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Think of CH types as mechanically being "wargear" you give another unit.


That's a great way to put it!


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:15 am 
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Many thanks for the replies guys - really appreciated!
That definitely clears things up

Am sure will come up with some more beginner questions at some point so please keep an eye out !


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:41 am 
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NoisyAssassin wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Think of CH types as mechanically being "wargear" you give another unit.


That's a great way to put it!


To be fair, that was originally Dave or Onyx that put it that way. I'm just regurgitating their brilliance :)

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Hey guys, another couple of questions if I may

1) What's a good army size to aim for for standard games? (tournament standard or the right size for enjoying the game etc.)

2) This one a bit more specific so not sure anyone will be able to help. I'm using the Armyforge army builder for Horus Heresy https://traitor-legion.appspot.com/indexISSTVAN.html

Is this the only/correct source for the World Eaters pre-heresy list? The setup seems a bit strange - the only detachments are tactical or terminator. So if I want assault marines I need to get 8 tactical guys then stick on some extra assault marines as support detachments. My only epic experience was with Epic Space Marine where you had the cards with tactical company, assault company, devestator etc. so this seems strange to me (but is it normal? I'm not experienced enough with EA to know!)

very grateful if anyone could add any input with this


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Most people play games at 3k. The rulebook says the lists are balanced for 2-5k games. What's enjoyably is really going to be down to you. There's people here who play "mini-geddon" (1k lists, with a few rule/list tweaks to make that size more playable) and others that do 18k mega-battles.

Personally, I build armies so I can field fluffy options and that allow me to play most/all of the variant lists. It makes for big armies (10k plus) but it allows you to do anything from 1k on up. It also has the added benefit of allowing you to split your army and do a mirror match game (handy for getting others hooked).

I believe the HH lists are up on the AUS forum or website, those are likely more "official" that the army builder.

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Yeah that kind of restriction is fairly common for NetEA lists, though not all. I don't play Heresy so I don't know specifically but for example NetEA Steel Legion requires that you take one Company formation for every 2 Support formations.

Most tournaments play 3000 point games although a rare few do 4000 over a couple of days


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:04 pm 
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Brilliant - many thanks for the replies guys!

Thanks I have found the Aus EA forum, that list seems to be a lot more versatile list and will allow assault companies


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Also don't get too bogged down on the lists either. They give a theme but if you and your opponent want to change something, feel free. They give structure, not rules and the hobby police don't arrest you :)

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Thanks man - it's more because I'm approaching from the position of complete beginner for Epic Armaggedon, and as yet don't have anyone to play with (need to make enquiries!)


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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Where are you located?

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 Post subject: Re: Armageddon beginner questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:22 am 
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UK - Gloucestershire

I assume are you Worcester Massachusetts Dave? (as opposed to the Worcester in the UK, that's actually quite close to me?)


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