Had the pleasure of playing this list last evening for the first time. It's the list with the worst record in competition (check https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fgtMR0fSy22armPvUzHI25Zo-tH2IgtTC-cXdCf935I/pubhtml) although to be fair it has only been played in 6 games and there are some epic uk lists that have never been played!
I spotted some inconsistencies and weaknesses about the list which I'd like addressed to make it a bit more competitive. I'm not saying all lists should be A tier, I'm fine with a wargame that has lists that are better than others. What I'm saying is that the Yme-Loc list has flaws which are easy to correct and would make it much more playable. More playable = usable by more players = generally a good thing.

The Good
Hornet - a very good unit overall and correctly priced. Although what the list doesn't need more of is AT shots, this thing is pretty versatile. Also nice that it's an Yme-Loc exclusive to make the list more attractive.
Warp Hunter - as above. The small fm size make it vulnerable but when it works correctly, i.e. using Eldar ambush tactics, it's pretty deadly. The MW FF works very well with Eldar's rolling assault and hit and run special rules.
Large Webway Portal - an interesting idea. An army with as few "boots on the ground" as this will struggle to protect it in any meaningful way, though. So it becomes a gambit, but it's a nice to have.

The Bad
Large Falcon base formations - not sure why it's seen as an advantage that Yme-loc buys falcons in groups of 6 rather than 5. It just makes the whole thing more inflexible (see below). I can see fm of 6 falcons being more durable than an fm of 5, e.g. losing 2 from shooting breaks the latter but not the former. But wouldn't it be better to give the option? Say 5 falcons (2 replaceable w/ firestorms), with the option of buying an extra one for 50 points. Easy. "Oh, but then the host cost would be too low, Carlos!" Well, Ulthwe get their hosts at 175 points...
Warhosts and troupes - Biel-tan gets 3 troupes per warhost, Yme-loc gets 2. This is not that big a deal as it matches other craftworlds but the options here are very limited. To get a good activation count you'll need 4 warhosts. One is a compulsory engines of vaul formation, and then you need 3 falcon warhosts. The falcon isn't the most versatile vehicle in Epic. It can shoot tanks and WE well but that's it really. Other limited warhost options in other craftworlds have good engagement fms. Good engagement fms can attack anything as the FF/CC dice affect inf and AV alike. Yme-loc is always going to have too many AT shots on the table unless it's a freak matchup like AMTL or Ulani. Proposed change: make it 3 troupes per warhost.
Compulsory engines of Vaul - nothing necessarily wrong with this but let's look at the options starting with the thought that no EoV works well together with another of a different type, i.e. Cobra and Scorpion are not a good partnership.
* 2 Scorpions: nothing wrong with this punchy formation but in nearly 500 Biel-tan games nobody has ever used an fm of 2 even with the discount. Making it 25 pts cheaper for Yme-Loc is not enough to make it usable. For 400 pts and compulsory, sure. Seems reasonable.
* 2 Cobras: incredibly specialised and I guess worth it against certain matchups. Used once as a pair in nearly 500 Biel-Tan games. Overall too specialised to be face regular game time.
* 2 Storm Serpents: a mental choice that is no choice and makes no sense at all (see note below on SS)
Guardian troupe with compulsory Falcons - why? The Farseer is really useful in this list, otherwise how are you going to shift infantry off terrain (hint: combined Avatar + Guardians assault is good for this!)? Let alone the Farseer doing his magic double retain trick. So you have to bring the Farseer but he gets to ride in a worse transport (5+ save without RA) which has a gun that's not really that useful for an engagement formation. Can we just have 5 guardians and farseer + 3 wave serpents for 300 pts perhaps? Or 275?

The Ugly
Storm Serpent - hey guys you can buy a vehicle to deliver infantry and light vehicles straight to the middle of the battlefield. Oh, by the way you have to buy them in pairs and the only thing you can deliver are vypers or hornets. Great.
Supreme Commander - only available in an aspect warrior fm. This breaks the vehicle theme of the army. Wild Riders get their SC in a bike, Ulthwe in a farseer unit, Iyanden in a wraithguard unit. Why can't Yme-loc get their SC riding in an EoV or in a Falcon? Makes more sense. This option forces Yme-loc to buy aspect warriors as a 2+ initiative army that needs to manoeuvre will always need an SC re-roll. Easy change, keeps within theme of the army.
Why no Void Spinner? The Eldar vehicle list... and it can't use one of the most popular Eldar vehicles. If you kept the theme of pairs for EoV you'd have to take 2 void spinners together which reduces their efficiency. Perhaps as an upgrade to the compulsory EoV formation? Say 475 for the 2? 500?
BTS - if not using aspects, the compulsory EoV is the BTS. An fm that is very vulnerable. If the deathstrikes fire, you start the game down 1 VP. This makes the aspect warrior fm almost compulsory too just to cover this flaw. Which is not really the theme of the army.

For your consideration.

_________________

yup the list is a bit bum

I like the large falcon formations, makes them that much less likely to fall prey to warhounds alpha-striking

I think the guardians have the falcons to bump the cost a bit and lower their resilience, 5 guardians, 3 wave serpents and a farseer for ~250 points is a hugely spammable unit

agreed on the aspects

agreed on the EoV comments in general, the only one that makes sense is the pair of scorpions and maybe the cobra+storm serpent for doubling, portaling and then sustaining with the cobra maybe....

I don't think they should have void spinners as it's very specifically a BT-unit, while all craftworlds have the technology, most of them think BT using it in battle is abhorrent

I'm keen to try the following out:

EoV (2 scorpions)
Falcons (2 firestorms)
Falcons (2 firestorms)
Guardians
Guardians
Aspects (3 dire avenger, 3 fire dragon, autarch)
Vypers
Night Spinners
Night Spinners
Nightwings

I think it's a tad low on activations, although it can bring the avatar on for a boost if needed, also the BTS is the autarch formation, but that is a common eldar problem.... other than that it's got plenty of shooting, decent engagement potential, speed and good air cover....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

All reasonable ideas - apart from the Void Spinners you Biel-Tan heretic

It´s likely the Yme-loc list will see a few changes such as cheaper EoV hosts with some options for single EoV´s along with possibly other structural changes.

Unfortunately an Eldar review is not likely until at least next year as we are currently reviewing Tyranids and working on a Squats list.

So for now Yme-loc will remain an interesting if underpowered variant.

This is the list I wanted to take:
ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [425]
2 Scorpion
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
MOUNTED GUARDIAN TROUPE [325]
Farseer, 2 Wave Serpents, 2 Falcons, 5 Guardians
WARP HUNTER TROUPE [175]
3 Warp Hunters
WARP HUNTER TROUPE [175]
3 Warp Hunters
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners
MOUNTED ASPECT WARRIOR TROUPE [475]
5 Dire Avenger, 3 Wave Serpent, Autarch, Fire Dragon

But when I was packing my army I spotted I only had 6 night spinners so went with this stupid list. Still only lost 2-1 against Steel Legion in a seesaw game that could have gone either way.
ENGINES OF VAUL WARHOST [450]
2 Scorpion, Spirit Stones
AVATAR [0]
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
FALCON WARHOST [300]
4 Falcon, 2 Fire Storm
MOUNTED ASPECT WARRIOR TROUPE [425]
5 Dire Avenger, 3 Wave Serpent, Fire Dragon Exarch
MOUNTED GUARDIAN TROUPE [325]
Farseer, 2 Wave Serpents, 2 Falcons, 5 Guardians
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners
NIGHT SPINNER TROUPE [175]
3 Night Spinners
WARP HUNTER TROUPE [175]
3 Warp Hunters
WARP HUNTER TROUPE [175]
3 Warp Hunters
WIND RIDER TROUPE [200]
6 Vyper units

A big turning point was that I got the strategy roll but then failed my first activation which was doubling falcons up the table and shooting the deathstrikes. 6 AT5 shots + 4 AT6 shots should have taken care of them. That would have left the Scorpions intact for the start of the game and things could have been different. Oh well. That first turn had something like 60% failed activations on both sides so it was a bit silly overall.

_________________

They're never spammable as it's 500 for 2 of these + 300 for the falcons to allow the troupe purchase. So at the most you could have:
EOV BTS - 425
3 Falcon hosts
6 Mounted guardian hosts
And that's pretty much your army. Don't think it's that scary tbh! Anyway I was suggesting 275 for that fm.
s
An interesting choice! Why would you bring them with so much AA slushing around? I guess they can reach spots in the battlefield other units can't.

Overall, in my initial post I forgot that bringing an all-skimming army is a force multiplier by itself. There's something to be said of an army that will never (well, mostly never) be dragged into close combat.

_________________

There were a lot of failed activations in that game, I think I failed 4 out of 11 (three 2+, one 3+) in turn one alone. Bit being able to kill the Deathstrikes definitely hurt Carlos but (it being only my second game with steel legion) I didn't deploy them or my scout screen properly. If I had then there's no real chance of getting over on the first activation. Do the point about the very vulnerable double scorpion definitely stands up. Overall the list could definitely be tweaked but I think the feel is right.

_________________

I think 3-4 mechanised guardian hosts is pretty nasty, they still kick out 8x4+ and 1x5+ in FF, have 3 lots of 5+RA to soak up a few return hits and can speed around just like the larger BT/Ulthwe formations, but with less cost, you'd want the falcons anyway for general AT/AA duties so it's not like you wouldn't be buying them

I went with nightwings as they're much more durable AA, and trouble stuff like thunderhawks and landas, also the lance shots may come in handy late game, you could just as easily use phoenix bombers....

_________________
Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Thanks for the feedback. You have picked up on some of the main points of the list.

Yes the EoV are a vulnerable BTS if you do not take Aspects instead & you are quite correct that 99% of the time people will to get the Supreme Commander. Falling back on the theme of the list - it is an Eldar Tank List - the adding of command vehicles and a vehicle based SC was considered but to ease testing and work with what we already had we stayed with the Autarch.

Storm Serpents are in the list for completeness, but unless you are using a few special combinations I would only expect them to be seen in friendly/large games.

My games with them have been overall balanced. Sometimes the force over runs the enemy, sometimes they are smashed, but mostly they are tight games. One thing that I have gone more and more for is to take at least one 6 Falcon strong formation and not swop out for any Fire Storms.

Otherwise I find it an enjoyable list to play - more 4,000pts than 3 though.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

These are most of the same issues I have with the list. It doesn't really feel like you're choosing a list, you are so restricted by practicality. You've spent 1825 points on 5 formations before you even get to choose anything (compulsory EoVs, 2x falcons, supreme commander, farseer+avatar). Then the rest of it has to be spent trying to get your activations back up, except you have even fewer ways to do that because the guardians have been turned into a schizophrenic and not-cheap version and you can't take the very useful rangers. If you want more than 9 activations (i.e. always) then you either need yet another falcon formation or to buy 2 air/space formations (night wings and wraithship probably as you can't afford a titan). The effective upper limit for the list is 11 activations, 5 of which are 3 unit glass formations (or 4 and a spaceship).

These list build issues are all the more disappointing because you are already giving up air assault and webway strategies, and losing most of the eldar capability to strike the deployment zone (void spinners, teleport and air assault are all gone). I imagine the game itself can still be fun as it will play differently to regular eldar whilst still clearly having an "eldar feel". It just feels ill-thought-out when building the list.

I would look to either or both of:
1. Bring down the cost of the falcons - possibly by giving them a variant option with a different weapon but could also just be a cut - 6@300 does not reflect the cost for the activation.
2. Up the troupe limit to 3.
That opens out a lot more list choice.
And also possibly discount the third EoV slightly - 3 scorpions is a less terrible BTS.

I'm ambivalent about moving the SC. On the one hand if you make him have to go in the EoV then you are making things a bit harder as it's impossible to stop it being BTS unless you take another expensive titan formation. On the other hand it doesn't feel quite right that the aspects are a must-take formation. Plus, if the farseer falcon model is going to feature anywhere it should be here.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

I agree with kyrt's 1 and 2.
But I want an SC in a vehicle of some kind, probably safer in a 'command' falcon or wave serpent than in a scorpion.
Falcon farseer sounds odd but there are examples from other eldar variants.

_________________

Farseer falcon could be interesting even if it is not SC - farsight and avatar with no guardians on the table...

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list