Hi, recently some of the following situations have come up and I am not sure how the rules is supposed to work. Hope you can help me
(If possible please refer to the section in the rules that you base your answer on)

1. WE block line of sight. So if two warhounds is part of the same formation and one "hides" behind the other can I allocate hits to the one in the back if I get more than 3 hits? (no part of the warhound is visible to the shooter, so no LOF)

2. If a WE peeks out behind a building the attacker gets the -1 cover modifier to hit it, right. But when the WE fires back does the same penalty apply to it? The question is from where on the firing model you trace line of fire I guess. Using the warhound example one gun is behind the building and the other in the open. The warhound is very close to the building but not in it. Can it shoot?

3. Can you (partially) hide behind a WE to get the -1 to hit cover modifier?

4. When firing direct barrage at a unit that is partially obscured do you get the -1 to hit cover modifier?

5. Rereading the rules for cover save (1.8.4) there is much talk of "infantry" gaining -1 to hit cover modifier. We have always played that any unit gain that modifier even a WE, do we play it wrong? Usually a warhound with one toe in the forest, ruin or whatever

6. Is there a limit on how many infantry stands that can gain the -1 to hit modifier from being base to base with the same armoured vehicle/WE


/Uven

If there's no LOS to it, it can't ne allocated hits.

The line of fire is from any part of the firing weapon (1.9.2 design concept).

Yes.

No, infantry touching it would.

It should be generously applied (1.8.1 design concept), talk about it in yhe 5 min warmup.

See the faqs: http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/tourna ... in-effects

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Squats 2019-10-17

Thanks for the fast reply!

Number 1 is clear

Number 2. I found the rule and lets hope it never happens with a Baneblade or similar. It will be a real hassle to find out where all the weapons is And also does the Baneblade or whatever block LOS to its own weapons?

Number 3. So if I have 3 shadowswords I can place them "behind each other and a little to the left" for example, to force the opponent to only be able to fire at the first one or suffer -1 on all. (while I get to measure from the long barrel and get a normal shot.) Right now we often position the WE in a line so you can choose who takes the first hit but this will be a very good alternative...

Not really sure if I get it right but the answer to number 4 is a little bit weird. Assuming you answered the questions in order

Number 5, if there is no clear rule it would be nice to know how other people play it. If I would face Titans or Knights it would be a long 5 min talk and it might ruin the game. So if we know how other people play we can agree on these things before the game instead

Number 6. I knew I had read that thing somewhere

I've seen 2 played both ways. 5 min warmup it.

Yep to 3. Other side of the sword is all the hot can go on one, so it's more likely to be taken out.

4) infantry touching av/we get -1 to hit. Unless the unit is in cover/touching it there's no -1 with regards to BP

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Squats 2019-10-17

There are clear rules for number 5.

All units (Inf. AV. and WE ) can claim the "to hit cover modifier" see 1.8.2

When "in cover" Infantry can claim a "cover save" see 1.8.3

1.8.4 goes into depth for all the different types of terrain and explains what effect each has (if any) on the various units.

Hmm, WE that block LOS to their own weapons... Will probably not play with that. In my mind thats what firearcs is there for.

So the -1 cover should also be applied generously

Why is there no modifier to the BP shot? Where in the rules does you find that?
(we have played it the way you say all the time but at a recent tournament my opponent claimed it to be like any other shot. So if i sustain I would get +1 and when firing at hidden troups or making a double move -1. It did't matter in the end but it was kind of wierd to have -1 on the unit in cover but no modifier on the ones that was out of sight )

Yes, because when you fire directly, you need LoS. If that LoS is partially obscured of blocked, they get the -1.

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Yep, what LB said.

You only need LoS to one unit under a template in order to place it there, once it's placed things under it get the -1 if they are in/touching cover. It's just an abstraction.

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Squats 2019-10-17

For any newer players.
That should be Infantry/AV/WE "in cover" or Infantry "touching an AV/WE". Infantry just touching cover isn't in the rules.
It's just that I have seen a few players over the years mix up the "Infantry touching an AV/WE" with "any unit touching any terrain" and trying to claim -1 to hit without being "Hull Down" in that situation.


To add to the barrage question, any extra Barrage templates could possibly be placed out of "Line of Sight" of the firing formation ( as long as the template still follows the "cover as many units in the target formation" rule).

I know the rules sometimes must be abstract but to get -1 on the unit you fire at and no modifier to the other units that might be out of sight feels wrong.
In the specific case I saw half a thunderhawk behind some ruins and got -1 to hit it but I placed the barrage out of LOS but still touching the thunderhawk and could then hit some landspeeders that were lurking behind the ruin totally out of sight without the -1 to hit. Or would you have applied the -1 to hit on all units, and would that have happened even if the first unit were in the open?

I have never come across it before myself, but I suppose you could think of it being like this:

The hull down modifier is applied exactly as normal, the only difference is that for direct barrage you only need LOS to one unit. So if you can only see 1 unit and that unit is partially obscured, then the -1 "hull down" to hit modifier applies - but it applies to all to hit rolls, regardless of whether the unit is inside cover, hull down, or in the open. If that single initial unit is not obscured, then there are no hull down modifiers and you check the cover status of each unit instead.

But to be honest I am not all to happy with the above, as it ignores the major difference of barrage. That is, the reason -1 applies to all units in "normal" shooting is because you have to decide whether to shoot at in-cover units or not. There is no such decision for barrages.

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When firing direct, barrages included, you still have to use LOS. you cannot place a template out of LOF without using indirect fire.



From the netEA FAQ.



Also this may help for working out the -1 for cover.

Hmm so no part of the template may be placed out of LOS?
I think it is enough to have line of sight to one of the targets.
1.9.8 "Each weapon contributing to the barrage must be within range and have a line of fire to at least one unit under the template."
I think this rule/sentence is what all the examples you showed have in mind when they say that you need LOS and range.

And on the cover issue you might have misunderstood. It is not the cover save from being in terrain that gives cover that I'm asking about. I think the situation that I'm asking about isn't covered in the rules. But it happened to me for the first time this weekend so it will not be a big issue but it would be fun to "solve"

To clarify, I believe in uvenlord's situation:
a) The thunderhawk was (partially) visible to the shooting formation, hence satisfies the "at least one unit" LOS restriction. In addition to the thawk, the template also covered some speeders that were completely outside LOS
b) The question about the -1 is not about being in terrain, it is about being hull down (partially blocked by intervening terrain). So do you apply -1 when rolling to hit the thawk, and if so do you also apply it against the speeders?

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Right on the spot!