So, having recently faced the 12BP monstrosity that is the Necron Aeonic Orb I've been looking over the barrage rules...

Given the following situation:



So we've got A facing off against enemy formations X,Y and Z. Assuming that the grey block is greater than 10cm deep and fairly talll, so it blocks line of sight, so the only formation visible to A is formation X. Am I right in thinking that the only possible way of laying down a 12BP barrage is something like this?



Basically covering as many units from the target formation as possible. Despite the fact that something like this may be tactically more advantageous:



Given that each formation hit is going to receive 3 BMs just for coming under fire and that X consists largely of say, expendable gribblies and a large combined assault may be brewing next turn?

This brings up a couple of things:

1. Is it very likely that large barrages are ever able to target multiple formations, given that "templates must be placed in such a way as to get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines of fire and range."? I'm guessing once all units in range and in LOS are covered you're then free to put the other templates where you like, so you could find yourself hoping to only be able to see one unit from a formation so you can immediately place other templates to catch a second. Come to think of it, how does this work for indirect fire? LOS doesn't come into it, so do you always have to focus on one formation? I can potentially see the logic from a game point of view, clipping two formations with a disrupt barrage for example is quite strong. But then it's up to the opponent to spread out accordingly...

2. It might be a +1 for using true line of sight? Unless the LOS blocking terrain is an actual building, let's say it's ruins, it's pretty unlikely that A won't be able to see Y and Z on the other side. This would mean you could target formation Z, and at least hit Y and Z and still be following the rules as written.

To me, the spirit of the game would suggest that the second barrage would be fine. They put themselves in that position after all and it is probably the best move tactically. I'm just interested as to how it would play out at a tournament or if I've just mis-understood the rules somehow. Also, it's not my intention to come across as at all gamey! I'm fine with the second option, it's just more epic!! I'm just interested to know how people play the rule. It'd also give better perspective on the pricing of barrage units.

Having re-read the rules, I have to say that the second example breaks the 'same unit' rules



If you could have targeted two units with this template then you would have had the option to place the additional templates over one or the other unit. As below.

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you are correct that barrages allow shooting around corners

in the first example, you place the first template to cover as many units in the target formation as possible, you may then place second and subsequent templates anywhere, provided they are both touching the first template, this enables you to hit other formations with the second templates as they are not restricted in the same way as the first template

I do think the barrage rules are some of the worst written rules in the game, in terms of scaling power they're not remotely linear (4BP is potentially twice as powerful as 3BP, yet 5BP is no more potent than 4....) allow sniping of specific units, and allow you to shoot round corners as in your example above

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I hadn't noticed this, I guess I should RTFM. So that clears that up, it's all about where the first template get placed, that's what determines the "target" formation - not "I'm shooting at that one" as would normally be the case. But subsequent templates have to completely cover one or all of the initial target formations before they can catch another right? Maybe they can't even catch another?

If that's the case, a direct firing 12BP weapon just became significantly less scary, which doesn't quite feel right. Still pretty scary, but a little more avoidable I suppose?

@kyussinchains - doesn't that go against "templates must be placed in such a way as to get as many enemy units from the target formation under them as possible within the restrictions for lines of fire and range." though?

[edit] No, it doesn't - I really should just RTFM!!! Looking at the rules for addittional templates, they can be placed without restriction...Thanks guys!

Actually, reading the FAQ:



So actually, unless the second formation was under the first template you couldn't place subsequent templates to cover it. Yes you can hit units from the same formation that are out of LOS, but not from a second. In fact, how can you ever cover two formations with the first template if you have to cover as many units from the target formation anyway? Except for edge cases where you can only see say, one unit from two different formations?

Logically I would say that you could shoot around corners, zeroing your first shot then adjusting fire to land 'around corners' assuming all those firing are in communication.

From the rules as written, I have to agree with Alf, that the 'sniper prevention' rule stops this and ensures you target one unit from your initial template.

I'm interested to here from more experienced players like Kyussinchains on their use.

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The second picture is also an illegal placing of BM. There are two resons for this. I assume formation X is intended to be the only viable target.

1) The first template is the one touching formation X. This template has to be put were it maximises the number of units hit from formation X (probably 3 units from your picture, but perhaps 4?, in the pic it only touches 2 from X). Players choice if two or more "placings" can produce the same amount.

2) It would also be illegal becuase all extra templates have to touch the initial template. The third template is touching (only) number two in your picture.

It's not meant to be easy to cover more than 1 formation, it does happen in games but not often.
Taking your example pics above, if the attacker could see formation Z it could possibly cover all the formations with the 1st template (maybe 2nd too), then the 2nd and 3rd templates could be placed (touching 1st template) to hit units from formation Y.

hmmm I'm not sure we play to the FAQ ruling.... but I think I may be getting a little confused with orbital barrages here as I've been playing marines for the past year and am a little rusty with the guard!

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Good spot! It's starting to look like option one is right after all for quite a few reasons... Even if it was firing indirectly so Y was a viable target you'd have to cover units from Y first right?

Only targetting Z would allow you to touch a second formation with the extra templates which would only be possible if it was firing indirectly (it would also have to be more than 30cm away, which in this case it isn't) or if you were using true line of sight under the right circumstances?

If the target formation is a lone War Engine (and was the initial target of the barrage), the first template would have to be centered on it so as to maximise the number of hits on the target formation. After that, you could pick any position for the additional templates.

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Yes you have to place the first template to catch the maximum number of units from the target formation, at least one of which must be in LOS in the case of direct fire.

Personally I think catching multiple formations is not something I want attacking players to have much control over - you can't choose to target multiple formations with any other type of shooting (even if in "reality" you might), so I prefer for this to be an incidental side-benefit for barrage. In-game it often is possible to catch one or two units from a second formation (very frequently for orbital barrages of course), it's just that it's usually down to how the defender has laid out the units.

Barrages are already quite powerful in their ability to negate the defender's ability to control the survivability of their own units, particularly in how they interact with the LOS rules. (i.e.: I can just about see the arm of on of your infantry units, therefore I'm going to barrage the &*%# out of two formations that are otherwise completely obscured behind a building).

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Related Question:
The blast marker itself is 7.5cm wide. As far as I know, if the firing unit has a range of 45cm, it can actually hit a unit that is up to about 52cm away from it as long as the edge of the blast marker is 45cm from the firing unit and the other edge is at least partly over the target.
Is this correct?

Yes we do, but the Orbital Barrage isn't targeting a formation (targets an area) so if it has a second or third template these can be placed freely as long as they are touching the first template.