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GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer available)

 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:51 am 
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out of curiosity, if GW no longer produce miniatures at 6/10/whatever mm scale, does this open the door for a company like FFG to produce them? they make GW designs for HH and chaos in the old world, I always assumed they couldn't licence epic or warmaster due to GW making models, if GW no longer makes the models, could FFG theoretically make their own 6mm range of GW-licenced models and release a new game?

ps. if you're reading this kyrt, be a dear and answer my PM please ;)

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:54 am 
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The Bissler wrote:
I also endorse the need for a "Find me a Proxy" thread.

I don't think a thread is ideal, ive found it too hard to actually use, a wiki would be better. Maybe if I get some more time I'd think about a site built with that specific aim, I e searchable by army, unit, time stamped etc. wouldn't take long. The biggest problem is just that the best proxies couldn't be listed.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:55 am 
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As far as I know the licence with FFG only allows them to make counters for their games, miniatures is still a no-go even though they are very similar.


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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:03 pm 
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I think you might run into trouble with proxies as well... having a link saying 'leman russ' and a link to a EW, or DRM miniature might annoy GW for false representation.....

I'm no law-talkin guy however, just thought it merited mentioning....

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:28 pm 
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I'm not in a position to be ordering the last chunks for the guard army I was putting together, so going to miss out on picking up a bunch of SG minis to finish the 3k points planned plus expand on that.. and I'm crazy OCD about using 'counts as'.. I really want a chimera to look like a chimera etc. So currently debating just selling off what bits and pieces I've gathered so far for the guard army and just sticking with the one marine army for the time being, I might have a re-think on the guard and go entirely proxy later on... I just don't want to mix SG with proxies when I've already got one bunch of SG bits. Hrmpf!

Decisions decisions :(

Shall have a little inner debate for a bit and try to decide what to do :)

Steve54 wrote:
I would question how many newcomers start through buying from GW, in my experience it tends to be joining existing epic gaming groups who can point them in the right direction for models or starting off on their own through ebay. Prices at GW pushed people to ebay anyway.


I bought my first bunch of epic minis from GW, but that was because I had an urge to paint 6mm again and didn't really realise there was an active epic scene in the UK and stuff available on ebay - came here and found out otherwise, then headed to ebay to pick up most of the other stuff (barring stuff I just couldn't be bothered trawling ebay for)

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:38 pm 
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How can it be trouble having a link saying Leman russ proxies and then link to certain sites?

GW have made sure the real deal isnt for sale...


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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
From a community stance, I worry about the effect this will have on recruitment and retention. It appears people can no longer get into epic without trawling ebay. It's not true, and choices are only increasing, but fluff/appearance are important to many, and using the 'correct' model is a habit drilled into GW recruits. We lose a subset of potential and (possibly) existing players by losing easy access to GW's ranges.


This doesn't just apply to new players. I don't like the proxies or alternatives which are suggested by many on this site. I like using the proper, or correct, models, and I've been playing Epic since the early 1990s. Now that the models will no longer be available, I don't see myself making any future purchases at all, especially since my two armies (Eldar and Chaos) have a distinct aesthetic which I feel is extremely hard to imitate.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Irisado wrote:
This doesn't just apply to new players. I don't like the proxies or alternatives which are suggested by many on this site. I like using the proper, or correct, models, and I've been playing Epic since the early 1990s. Now that the models will no longer be available, I don't see myself making any future purchases at all, especially since my two armies (Eldar and Chaos) have a distinct aesthetic which I feel is extremely hard to imitate.


Somehow I find this a bit sad. We will see how many old ones will drop out. Right now, everything is pure speculation. I prefer to look upon this in a more positive way.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Irisado wrote:

I like using the proper, or correct, models,


I think this is the mind set that any new players (and even some long term players) will need to loose, if the epic community is too survive, if it wants to remain as it is now or to even grow, other wise it could end up being just a handful of older timers.

I totally get that people, like yourself, already have heavy GW invested armies, and why you wouldn't want proxies mixed in when you have a distinctive look for you force.

But keeping people interested in the scale, I think there needs to be promotion to the proxies, otherwise it will just become stale, especially with out any new models! ( I think that ever gamer, new and old, suffers from shiney syndrome!)

Im looking forward to the day that GW make 40k so large that it not longer becomes practical to make model kits in that scale! It would be nice to think that epic scale could be kept alive until then!

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Jodrell wrote:
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
FW anticipating a couple of extra days getting all orders out due to 'unusually high order volume'. Everything i'd ordred was in stock for my order, just delays due to us lot doing panic buys :)


You never know, all this panic buying might show the manglement that there is a market out there for Epic!


There's no better way to clear out stock that has been sitting there than by dropping the word it's going OOP!


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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:31 pm 
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I'm not sure about everyone else, but I kind of miss the dozen PMs/emails per minute flying around with people arranging trades and last minute group purchases.... I'm having to actually do work at work today, and that is a sorry state of affairs... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Leaving aside the Queen Rhapsody lament.... ;D

It seems that the BFG Protectors are sold out, which annoys me no end. My own fault I guess. I use them for EA Tau Morays. I called FW yesterday...

- me; "I wonder if the web site lists something as sold out, if it really is totally sold out."
- FW; "Is this Epic, Battlefleet Gothic or Aeronautica?"

So, yeah, not their first call and question, I think! He did confirm that they were running down all these three lines and that when they were gone, they were gone.

While I agree that there are a load of perfectly good proxies out there, and we should be drawing on these more, in some cases I have some minis I need, but not enough, and my OCD only wants one design for each, so I may have to grab a few things today. Luckily, there is not a lot that I really need right now.

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
From a community stance, I worry about the effect this will have on recruitment and retention. It appears people can no longer get into epic without trawling ebay. It's not true, and choices are only increasing, but fluff/appearance are important to many, and using the 'correct' model is a habit drilled into GW recruits. We lose a subset of potential and (possibly) existing players by losing easy access to GW's ranges.

What we as a community do about this will have a significant impact on Epic's future. We need to get it right. I think a catalogue of existing manufacturers and independant designers on the NetEA website with some suggestions (think Epic Proxy List MkII but less exhaustive) would be a good start. A place to point and say "look, just about anything you want can be found here".


carlisimo109 wrote:
It may be time to transition from “Epic” to “6mm general”. I wouldn’t have thought that way – I’m pretty entrenched in the 40k universe – but the similarity between E:A and Exodus Wars’s rules might make it possible. We’ve been using EW figures in Epic games… maybe it’s time to use our Epic figures in EW battles.


uberChris wrote:
I fully agree with others on this thread, that we should tap the many talents of our members to create proxies to fill the void left by G.W. Rather than letting G.W. "shat" on us with it's final grand gesture of indifference, we at Taccom should take control of our hobbies' future with model-makers and collectors giving a big, defiant middle finger to the SOB's.


This is something that I will be turning my mind to shortly. We need to be co-ordinated and organised, and make sure that we are positive going forwards.

The first stage of this will be the setup of the TacCmd mini catalogue (which I am unofficially calling 'TO&E'ing the Line'). I have a few ideas of my own, but I welcome any discussion on moving forwards and ideas involving this site and these boards.

carlisimo109 wrote:
Unless we’re going to saddle one person with the task, I think it would have to be a wiki, so any of us can update it at will. We’ve talked about that before, creating a wiki with sample army lists and advice for new players. Either way, to avoid walls of text I’d recommend that the link be hidden in the model’s name, rather than being a separate URL.

Alternatively, we take an opposite approach and compile all the manufacturers we know of and summarize their product ranges, including what Epic figures they might look like. I think that’d be healthier – it’d give them more exposure, and new players going to those websites would be more likely to look at their ranges as a whole, rather than individual pieces to snipe for use in the 40k universe.


While I appreciate the proactive nature, I would caution against starting any endeavour just yet. I think that it is best that we discuss the way forwards and wait for the dust to settle for a couple of days before starting threads or wiki's or whatever. Lets get some ideas discussed, and work out a productive way forwards, and not start threads or assign people to tasks yet. We need to work out what is needed, and how best to go about it first.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:48 pm 
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I'm happy to see enthusiasm from some for a "find my proxy" style thread, so tonight I'll start to get a bare-bones thread up. (I'm packing to leave for a wedding this weekend, so bare-bones won't start fill out much until Monday.) If the board management like what they see, then perhaps they can sticky it. If they don't and people decide it's not useful, then it will fall off the front page and no harm done.

I understand the concerns people have about a thread format, but I *think* I have ideas in mind that will make it work; at least early on. If and when it becomes too cumbersom then I have web space availble that I could use to set up a site. I'd still want to keep a thread here that pointed to model categories (on the site) so that people who discover EPIC via this forum will have an obvious doorway that says, "go here to buy the specific EA tank/infantry/daemon that you want."

To answer kyuusinchains, I don't think the linking system I have in mind would be a legal problem. I'd simply be saying that Leman Russ tanks no longer exist, but here are some DeathMan HardBunker tanks from Profitable Company that you can buy that will let you play the game. I definitely won't be using or hotlinking images from websites that sell miniatures; that would certianly cause problems. But I'm not a lawyer either.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:50 pm 
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EDIT (except I can't edit from this stupid machine)

Or maybe not. I just saw CyberShadow's message, which appeared while I was typing mine.

I'll hold off for now.

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 Post subject: Re: GW/FW Ending SG (was: GW Night Spinners no longer availa
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:17 pm 
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CyberShadow wrote:
While I appreciate the proactive nature, I would caution against starting any endeavour just yet. I think that it is best that we discuss the way forwards and wait for the dust to settle for a couple of days before starting threads or wiki's or whatever. Lets get some ideas discussed, and work out a productive way forwards, and not start threads or assign people to takes yet. We need to work out what is needed, and how best to go about it first.


Sounds reasonable, as long as you are not expecting something definite in terms of answers from the den of ignorance. That is a risky strategy considering the indifferent communication strategy employed by GW thus far. A few days to let steam off, then use the momentum to do something creative.

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