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What is missing from the E-A rules?
dafrca	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:37 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	If you could add anything into the Epic-A rules, what would you like to see added? I would like to see any new ideas you may have, not just OOP models that are missing... ? Dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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Legion 4	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36984 Location: Ohio - USA	FA - indirect fire rules are poor ! _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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MaksimSmelchak	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:43 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA	I'd like to see more flavor rules such as existed before Jervis "simplified" the lists again. I liked the original Ork flavor rules before they were simplified. I'd like to see the PDF stuff come out as well. It's a pity that Jervis wants to make sure that there are models before he releases lists. That's never stopped a dedicated gamer yet. Shalom, Maksim-Smelchak. _________________ 6mm Sci-fi: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/ My Personal Blog: http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/
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nealhunt	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:02 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	I'm pretty happy with the rules as is.  The latest errata fixed most of the lingering problems I had.  I am concerned about the new drop pod deployment and the latest proposed Artillery changes.  Other than that, the mechanics are fine. There are still a few minor army list tweaks that I think need to be done.  The Ork army is going to be forced to be more of a horde.  I would like to see a Kommandoes/Stormboyz formation. I would very much like to see the Vindicator have a better armor save and/or reinforced armor as it used to. I would like to see Daemon Engines (they will be "section 8" though). Pretty minor over all. _________________ Neal
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Legion 4	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:04 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36984 Location: Ohio - USA	Generally speaking the mechanics are good. However my comments on FA still stands, a glaring weakness, in my mind... ? _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:20 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Neal and Legion-4, There are still a few minor army list tweaks that I think need to be done. The Ork army is going to be forced to be more of a horde. I would like to see a Kommandoes / Stormboyz formation. I'd have to say that, overall, I like the mechanics. I just think that the unit balancing is already in the toilet and is bound to get worse with current trends withstanding. ---------------------------- Jervis's inclination is to keep simplifying towards the Epic40k direction, which is a game I don't care much for. It works great as an overall strategy game, but the lack of flavor / fluff elements really stinks. I see E-A going the same way for everyone but the Imperials. Eventually it will be "mighty-awesome-really-cool" Space Marines and IG versus namesless faceless aliens with minor detail differences. The little extra rules for each race is what give them their unique twist and make them fun in my opinion. It just makes no sense for me to have "umpty-zillion" different SM and IG units and an Ork list that is "mondo" generic. ------------------------------------- I really feel that a Kommandoes / Stormboyz formation is a good idea as well. This lack is really representative of the problem: - SMs get Terminators, Scouts, several versions of Landspeeders, etc. - IG gets Stormtroopers, Valkyries, etc. - Orks get Deth-Koptas, but lack some of their special troop types like ?Kommandoes / Stormboyz in good formations and have the Pulsa Rokkit diminshed to "just another Big Gun." ------------------------------ - Every time something new and innovative rolls along for the Orks, it seems to get removed or dimished. Witness: - Stompas - BFs with variable weapon loads - Supa-Stompa - Ork Bommas - Gunwagons, Battlewagons, Gun Trukks, etc. - Ork light vehicles constantly mutating - Ork Drednoughtz and Killa Kanz I understand Jervis's desire to prevent all Pulsa Rokkit batteries, but isn't there a better way to do it than just destroying the Pulsas altogether? ------------------------------- RANT MODE OFF! Shalom, Maksim-Smelchak. _________________ 6mm Sci-fi: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/ My Personal Blog: http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/

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TuffSkull	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:30 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am Posts: 2830 Location: South East UK	I haven't been following the E:A development since I have been ill. It was looking great then, but have all the Ork units you listed there Maksim been scrapped? If so, this isn't sounding like a good route to go.... _________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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Jimbo	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm Posts: 3495 Location: Wessex	For me the stuff that is "missing" is stuff like water-based forces, landing craft, monitors, riverine forces, paddle steamers... etc. _________________ Jimbo Felix's Gaming Pages Felix's Gaming Pages Blog Almost Always Right...
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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:53 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Tuffskull, I haven't been following the E:A development since I have been ill. It was looking great then, but have all the Ork units you listed there Maksim been scrapped? If so, this isn't sounding like a good route to go.... This is their current status as far as I know: - Stompas - Stompas have been mutating greatly over the playtest versions. They were orginally very very hard with decent firepower. they have been slowly trading in their firepower for increased CC ability. I don't like the trade one bit. I beleive that they were cheaper at one time too, but haven't checked that out. - BFs with variable weapon loads - Battle Fortresses lost their variable weapon loads and instead got the Oddboy upgrade = bad deal! - Supa-Stompa - Still around and unmarginalized as of yet. Although the escalation of Imperial forces makes the unit less viable.   - Ork Bommas - Totally gone. This was perhaps my favorite new unit too! It worked really well and Iw asted some good SM formation using flights of three Bommas. Rumor has it that there isn't a model yet and that's why it was scrapped. - Gunwagons, Battlewagons, Gun Trukks, etc. - These are still around and are currently called Gun Wagonz, War Trukks and Battle Wagonz. All of the other thinhs have been combined under these two names. - Ork light vehicles constantly mutating - Buggies and Skorchas are still around. - Ork Drednoughtz and Killa Kanz - these keep mutating. They're getting better at CC. - Ork Warlord - It looks like he was eliminated. - New limits on Ork formation size x2 or x3 also appear to be in place. - The old 0-1 limits apply to Oddboyz upgrades and SupaStompas now. This is a real loss because I was getting the hang of using multiple SupaStompa mobz well. - Orks lost most of their fluff rules. Shalom, Maksim-Smelchak. _________________ 6mm Sci-fi: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/ My Personal Blog: http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/

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dafrca	Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 10:45 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm Posts: 10956 Location: Burbank, CA, USA	Although I agree with Maksim in his overall observation that the rules have been simplified when it comes to "fluff" and "extras." There has been a cleaning out of the fluff. I believe his dramatization of the Orks and their changes is overdone. The Orks are the only army in our eight member group to have never lost a game. SM, IG, Eldar, and Bugs have all lost more than once. Only the Orks have seemed to always take the field. This makes me question just how poor is the army. Between the availability of their smaller cheap formations and the neverending airstrike formation, I would not say they are weak by any means. Lack fluff? Yes, all of them do now. Weak, no. Dafrca _________________ "Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"               - Cities of Death, page 59 Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: What is missing from the E-A rules? Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:06 am

Brood Brother Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Dafrca, Although I agree with Maksim in his overall observation that the rules have been simplified when it comes to "fluff" and "extras." There has been a cleaning out of the fluff. I believe his dramatization of the Orks and their changes is overdone. We can agree to diagree. No big deal. It wouldn't be the first time either that I had OVERDONE something! The fluff and detail level has dropped ramatically to make the game a smoother running game along Epic-40k lines. My impression is that Jervis has been allowing as little detail as he can in order to keep the Epic-40k engine as close to what it was as possible and still please the fans. That's his choice and I can respect it even if I don't care much for it. As far as dramatization goes, I don't think it's overstated one iota that the Orks are very inferior to how they were when the first set of playset rules came out. In some ways they improved and others they became diminished. I desired to see Orks play differently than they did in Epic-40k where Orks had one strategy - rush forward and overwhelm the enemy. That strategy became tiring for me after awhile, but nothing else worked even close to as well as the basic Ork strategy. Que sera, sera! In the beginning sets of playtest rules, the Orks played like more than a "rush-forward-to-overwhelm-them" kind of army, which I really liked. By the latest edition of the E-A rules, they're back to being a hoard army. The Orks are the only army in our eight member group to have never lost a game. SM, IG, Eldar, and Bugs have all lost more than once. Only the Orks have seemed to always take the field. This makes me question just how poor is the army. Between the availability of their smaller cheap formations and the neverending airstrike formation, I would not say they are weak by any means. Lack fluff? Yes, all of them do now. Weak, no.

I don't think I called them weak in these posts, but "diminished." My statement regarding Orks in E-A is that versus experienced SM and IG players, the Orks should win well under half the time. Until IG and SM players learn how to exploit the Ork weaknesses, the Orks should win quite often. As soon as the Ork weaknesses become known, the limited nature of the Ork lists should ensure that Orks lose very often much like older lists do in 25mm 40k. ?

I look at the tactic of using as many minimal Ork formations as possible to be a way of breaking the system. I always played theme armies with some balance. So did my SM and IG opponents.

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In the end of ends, none of my kvetching (complaining) really matters since I want to play with my 6mm Epic minis and I want to do it with others like Dafrca. I'll play E-A, no problem, understanding its' shortcomings.

Thanks for the feedback, Dafrca! ?

Best regards to everyone,
Maksim-Smelchak.

P.S.
Dafrca, let me know when you receive our last trade items, please. I'll do what I can to make sure that you are a satisfied trade partner.