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[ 11 posts ]

Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List
Morg	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:10 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:33 pm Posts: 193 Location: Ireland	We just had a little discussion in the german forum where the 1k Sons List came up because somebody wants to play it in our upcoming german friendly tournament. I must say I am really baffled by the list. Either I missed a serious weakness or the list seems a bit overpowered to me. All tanks are 25 points cheaper than in the vanilla marine list and RA is almost everywhere... Okay, they don't have ATSKNF but otherwise they seem much better than the average list to me. I also stumbled upon a thread with corrected points values here at Epicomms but they didn't make it into the list. What's the current status of the list? Did I miss a serious weakness or is it that cheesy? _________________ Generosity rules where 6mm soldiers are concerned. -- Looking for players near Dublin - get in touch with me!
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nealhunt	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:14 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	As far as overall status, the vault list is out of date.  It has been on hold because I was waiting for the Black Legion list to finalize (and to a lesser extent the Lost and Damned).  I got tired of doing constant revisions based on the changes in the BL.  It's probably time to go ahead and send in version 2.0. ==== Changes will definitely include: 1)  Use the updated BL summoning system/daemon costs. 2)  TSons Retinue is 400 points. (v. 350) 3)  Silver Towers are 90 points each. (v. 75) 4)  Rubric Chosen are 80 points each (v. 75) They will possibly include some of the stuff from the margin comments in the vault list.  Right now I'm leaning towards dropping the price of Warp Flame for vehicles and changing out the titan weapons for more arcane versions. If you'd like a MS Word copy of the work-in-progress, just let me know. nealhunt@yahoo.com ==== You can expect at least a 10% overall cost increase for the same army and depending on your prefered force composition possibly quite a bit more.  It will still need adjustment but that should be much closer. With respect to your specific question about the cost of armor units, they are correct.  The Black Legion armor is 25 points per unit cheaper than SM equivalents and the point values are based on BL.  It is generally expected that the SM armor will drop in points in the upcoming rules review. If you play with the list, I would love to hear some feedback.  It should be low on activations because the basic formations are expensive and it tends to be sort of slow. It usually works out that the armor and Silver Towers trade fire with the enemy units with good ranged fire while the TSons formations attempt to close to assault range. _________________ Neal
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Morg	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:58 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:33 pm Posts: 193 Location: Ireland	Thanks for the answer. I have sent you an email regarding the list. As I have mentioned I am not the 1k Sons player but I am likely to play against the list in early April. Expect some feedback then _________________ Generosity rules where 6mm soldiers are concerned. -- Looking for players near Dublin - get in touch with me!
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nealhunt	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:11 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Sent. If you are partial to using titans and don't mind trying it out, I'd like to hear about alternate weapons loads based on the Tzeentch Cannons and Beams of Power if you try them.  I was also considering switching up the CC/FF values for the Warlord class (CC3+/FF2+) based on Tzeentch being more shooty, but I am concerned about balance issues with that. _________________ Neal
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Tactica	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	NH, I'll second a vault update request with this list. It does seem to be a bit behind decisions made in 3.5 - not to mention 3.7 of BL. ~ Cheers, _________________ Rob
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nealhunt	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:29 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Let me knock out some alternate stats for the titans for testing, then I'll throw it out there. _________________ Neal
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BlackLegion	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:39 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am Posts: 8711 Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe	I skimmed a bit through the rules. Wow a TK(D3) BP-weapon on the Warp Palace! Are Thrall Wizzards characters or an extra unit? I guess characters? And shouldn't the Autocannon in the Sorcerer Lord Cabal be something like a warp blast? A autocannon doesn't really fit. And why can you only summon one grater deamon? Ok it only costs 4 summoning points instead of the 8 as in the BL3.7 list, but why this change? _________________ We are returned! http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
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nealhunt	Post subject: Questions regarding Thousand Sons Vault List Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:24 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Wow a TK(D3) BP-weapon on the Warp Palace! It's similar to the Psi cannon on the Eldar Warlock titan (if not identical).  The idea was for it to be between a scout titan and a mid-level titan.  It has roughly the equivalent of ~3 titan weapon systems and the durability of a scout titan. Are Thrall Wizzards characters or an extra unit? I guess characters?

I'm still working on how to define them exactly.  When I first made them up they worked the same way as sacrifices in the old summoning rules - not a unit and not attached to a unit like a character would be.  They were just a nebulous ability attached to the formation, essentially one-shot weapons.

I'm sort of inclined to keep them that way, as it is needed for the kinds of abilities I have been considering for them.  However, they may become character upgrades.

And shouldn't the Autocannon in the Sorcerer Lord Cabal be something like a warp blast? A autocannon doesn't really fit.

They carry actual weapons, too, and don't always rely on psychic powers.  But I'll check the overall list for flavor.

And why can you only summon one grater deamon? Ok it only costs 4 summoning points instead of the 8 as in the BL3.7 list, but why this change?

The summmoning rules will be identical to the Black Legion and Lost and Damned rules, including costs/summoning points, etc..

The BL and L&D can only summon one greater daemon of a faction at a time and since TSons are obviously a single faction that means 1 GD.  It's not a change and the 1 GD/faction restriction has been around since the original BL playtest list, iirc.