Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 10 posts ] 

Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
code_ronin
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:06 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
I have a question about how armor saves should be taken. It appears that the rules intend for you to roll the armor save for each unit/stand separately, after the hits are allocated to stands, not before. So, for example:

? D
A B C

X X X X

Units A, B, C, and D are fired upon by the X's and three hits are scored. The rules indicate you allocate from back to front, so A, B, and C have one hit each. Each hit is then rolled separately for armor saves, to determine which stands are actually removed. So if A and C save, stand B is the only one removed.

Is this the correct method? Because we were rolling saves THEN allocating hits and this method assures that you kill the closest guy if there are any unsaved hits. Which, unfortunately, was my Wild Rider Chieftain or Farseer.

Thanks.

Dale




_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
MemphisMark
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:21 am
Posts: 57
Location: Memphis, TN
If all three units (A, B and C) are the same thing, then you just roll three dice together and take any failed saves from front to back. If they are all the same distance from the firing unit, take off whomever you want.

If they are different units, then yes you do have to save them separately.

Hope that helps.

_________________
Visit my blog The Conservative Zone

Somewhere off in the distance, a lone Ork stompa commanda was shouting, ?YOU WANT A PIECE OF THIS?? - Honda
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
code_ronin
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:45 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
I agree that is the easy thing to do, but not necessarily the correct thing to do. Here's the reference:
1.9.6 Allocate Hits & Make Saving Throws: Once all hits have been allocated, make saving throws for each unit that has been hit, using the unit's armour value from its datasheet ... then the unit fails its save, and is destroyed and removed from play. ... Make a separate save for each hit the unit suffers. Remember that the target formation receives a Blast marker for each unit that is destroyed.

Several things to note here.

1. Hits are allocated to specific units (stands) and that unit takes the save. Not the formation.

2. If a unit is allocated two hits and dies on the first, the other hit is lost.

3. Blast markers are not allocated for unsaved hits, but for stands being removed. They are usually the same thing, but not always.

Going the easy route means that units rarely lose formation from shooting, because you are taking out the models that would ensure you stay in formation. Having to move into formation can have a large impact on your next action choices. For example:

A B C D E F G H

If B and C are lost, unit A is now out of formation with the rest of the formation.

Something to chew on. I just wondered how many people were rolling individual dice for saving stands.

_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:09 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
Check out the experimental rules at the SG site. These include hit allocation rules which will probably be adopted in the next rule review. They have a proviso for the situation MemphisMark describes.

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
code_ronin
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:07 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
In my case (which was not fully stated), I would still roll the Wild Rider Chieftain separately, as taking the closest 4+ armor save as a casualty would almost always be him. Although it is slower, I think rolling each stand is probably better, especially when you have mixed units like Saim-Hann Wind Rider hosts with Jet Bikes, Vypers, Chieftains, Farseers, and Shining Spears all mixed in together (but all having the same basic save).

Thanks for the comments.

_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Markconz
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:50 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
Quote (code_ronin @ 16 Jan. 2006 (01:07))
In my case (which was not fully stated), I would still roll the Wild Rider Chieftain separately, as taking the closest 4+ armor save as a casualty would almost always be him. Although it is slower, I think rolling each stand is probably better, especially when you have mixed units like Saim-Hann Wind Rider hosts with Jet Bikes, Vypers, Chieftains, Farseers, and Shining Spears all mixed in together (but all having the same basic save).

Thanks for the comments.

I think even with the new experimental hit allocation rules you have to roll by unit type, rather than by save type. So you would do your chieftan by himself, then all your jetbikes together, then all your vypers together (as an example).

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
It is a difference, especially with 'strung out' units in that their formation can be cut. However for speed we roll 'em and remove closest, not bothering about where a commander is, just for speed. As we all do it it is rarely a problem. Only exception for us is WE detachments where it makes a bit more difference, but even then we prefer removing whole units than damage points off lots.
One for the 5 minute warm up really.

Oh and when playtesting we generally play to the letter of the rules.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
code_ronin
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 Jan. 2006 (11:19))
It is a difference, especially with 'strung out' units in that their formation can be cut. However for speed we roll 'em and remove closest, not bothering about where a commander is, just for speed.


This seems like a major deviation from the intent of how the rules should be played, no? By removing the ones you want, you never put yourself in a bind by breaking formation. This is especially true with troops defending terrain and that wish to make sustained attacks.

Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 Jan. 2006 (11:19))
Only exception for us is WE detachments ...


Sorry, I am new. What are WE detachments? (Is there a Jargon file or an acronym dictionary on this site?)

Thanks.

Dale




_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA
WE = War Engine

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: Hit Allocations and Armor Saves
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:00 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Allocate, then roll.

Probably 90% of the time it makes little difference and we typically roll the saves and then remove stands front to back as you do because it is faster.  However, in cases where it can make a difference, you should stick to the rules.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 10 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net