What are these? |
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: What are these?  Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:43 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
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Location: Singapore
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For me, the problem here is that the release of Epic is being handled as the release for Gothic or any other game. In reality, it must be done differently. Gothic burst onto the scene as a new game, with simple mechanics, a cool and strong mythos and as something completely different and quite cheap to get into.
Epic MUST counter the bad feeling that has grown up around the previous versions. To a certain extent, this is being done quite well, and I am seeing more and more posts in various places about 'dusting off the old army' and people seem more open to EA than they have been to any other edition of the game.
The Incoming quote sounds like the aim is to make Epic available to the players and those who want it. We need to make people want it. People wont even know about it otherwise and it will sell in the same volumes as before, simply because it will be to the same people as they are the only ones who know about it.
I find myself being drawn over to primarchs way of thinking and outlook more and more, and that is worrying as I dont want to be negative about this game. I like what has been done so far, I think that the rules are the strongest set yet, and I want people to know about them.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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primarch
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:48 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
All very good points.
I think it is important to state that one thing is the actual game, which is looking to be very good and another thing is the marketing aspect.
One pet peeve of mine (out of many), is what CS points out, this is NOT a NEW game. It is a new version of a pre-existing game. There are many negative views regarding epic due to the bad way it was handled before. IF this is isn't addressed then distrust will continue and potential players will turn a way.
I also point out that regardless of marketing (which is helpful) miniature gaming depends a lot on word of mouth. Every effort should be made so the "vibes" are positive.
As mentioned, people should "want" to play epic, a good solid system is only part of a games success, marketing and good image are other equally important aspects.
Treating it like another "18-month cycle" game is NOT the way to do it. People like to play games they know will be supported in the long run. Many, unfortunately, will remain on the side lines and assume a "wait and see" attitude. Epic cannot afford this again.
Unfortunately its all up to GW, as usual they will make or break their own system.
Primarch
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:19 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
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Location: Finland
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| Quote (primarch @ 22 2003 Oct.,15:48) | Unfortunately its all up to GW, as usual they will make or break their own system.
Primarch |
Wanna bet which one it will be? 
The "not promoting at all" sounds really strange to me. After all, how are they going to get NEW players into it? If all they get is the same group of people who played E40k or possibly even smaller group, it's going to be flop as surely as sun rises in the morning. 
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I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:13 am |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
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Well, I stil have hopes for EA, and I believe that it certainly has the potential to do well. I feel that Jervis has done a fantastic job with it, producing a system which appeals toa number of people and getting players involved to stir up interest and guide the development.
However, I do think that he has a fight on his hands. He will need to push the game to get it the exposure that it badly needs. The best market will be relatively new players, who have not been disillusioned with previous systems. This means articles in WD, cool pictures and bargains to entice easy and cheap introduction. It means playing it in GW stores and events.
I guess that we should get involved as well. On the release, lets see how many games we can persuade GW stores to let us play... I would love to hear the reaction. If you try to get this organised, let me know which stores are sympathetic.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 3:51 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am
Posts: 2830
Location: South East UK
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 23 2003 Oct.,11:13) | | I guess that we should get involved as well. On the release, lets see how many games we can persuade GW stores to let us play... I would love to hear the reaction. If you try to get this organised, let me know which stores are sympathetic. |
I plan to try this at my local GW.
I hope to have my Cityscape & a desert board made up by february, so I will literally be able to turn up with a game.
The more exposure the game can get, the better & if we can help with that, as people who love the system and/or models, I think we should 
*End fanboy message*...._________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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Teekkari
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:30 pm |
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:53 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I also plan to try something. Don't have time for anything like properly organized promotional campaign, but at the very least (the store manager allowing, although the initial probe indicates a 80.6667% probability of success) I'll be playing some games in GW store, and if that is not possible, then in a local independent retailer.
As a matter of fact, starting tomorrow - I plan simply to turn up in the GW Helsinki store with opponent and the miniatures in tow and say, "We play. Epic. Now."... well, at least something to that effect  .
The more we can arouse interest even before the game is launched, the better. If there are any other Finnish players interested in this kind of "hearts and minds"-campaing, or simply interested in playing, let me know.
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-Janne Korhonen
ODERINT DUM METUANT
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nealhunt
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:06 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Sections 5 and 6 (unit stats and army lists) to be added to the vault tomorrow, pending resolution of a server problem.
That is all.
Actually, Jervis has a list of last minute tweaks if you want to mosey over to the playtest forum.
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Neal
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primarch
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:47 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
The new files to download for Epic A look very nice and I am looking forward to getting them.
As for Epic A, its success is not dependant on how good of a game it is. It is a good game. But on GW's backing of this game. I already see several things that will kill this game "market-wise':
1. Only available through GW. Even if some people like it, not having it available through independent stores severely limits exposure to potential new gamers. Not to mention not being able to get it at a discount wont do it any favors. What do you do when you demo games for it at independant stores that cant carry it? I dont think the local game store owner would appreciate demoing games that you need to order from GW directly. There is not much interest in their part to promote this game since they cant profit from it.
2. Weak or non-existant support through GW house organs. While I expect an article or two in WD, how long will articles for epic appear in WD? WILL there be any in WD? Will there be a epic magazine? How will they generate excitement when currently there is no form of support other than the playtest forum?
3. GW is NOT behind this product. We all know about certain regional GW like GW australia not carrying epic A and the fact that its availability to local GW is more dependant on the manager's bias than policy form GW, that alone is bad PR, but what about the fact that NO ONE but Jervis seems to be involved with epic? Where's that great defender of epic 40k Robin Dews? Where Andy Chambers? Where's Gavin Thorpe? Has anyone heard from ANYBODY from GW, besides Jervis, drop in and support epic? Or is Jervis the only voice in an otherwise empty desert? The perception this leaves to the potential costumer is, to put it mildly, no very encouraging.
These alone makes it VERY difficult for the game to attract a "critical mass". IF it cannot achieve this mass further resources will not be allocated to it.
Primarch
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:10 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
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Location: Finland
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| Quote (Teekkari @ 23 2003 Oct.,17:30) | | As a matter of fact, starting tomorrow - I plan simply to turn up in the GW Helsinki store with opponent and the miniatures in tow and say, "We play. Epic. Now."... well, at least something to that effect . |
There is a GW store in Helsinki? When has that appeared?
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I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
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Teekkari
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:37 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:53 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 24 2003 Oct.,07:10) | | There is a GW store in Helsinki? When has that appeared? ? |
Indeed there is. I was somewhat surprised also, since I haven't been in Finland too much recently...Apparently the store has been open for 1? months now. It is on a good location, though - right next to the bus station, in Simonkeskus (I think), lowest level.
Thursday evenings are gaming nights, but then the store seems to be totally jammed with pint-sized fellows (not meaning dwarfs here). Starting November, they are going to have Fridays dedicated to gaming - mostly Lord of the Rings now, but apparently it would be ok to play other games (read: Epic) also. Will try to confirm that today!
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-Janne Korhonen
ODERINT DUM METUANT
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Jackhammer
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:38 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:36 pm
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nealhunt
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:06 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Whoa-ho-ho. The army lists are up.
I would recommend browsing the unit stats for the pics, if nothing else. I've only started, but I'm very pleased. I especially dig the new Stompa model, but I'm sure many others will be good iimprovements.
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Neal
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Pariah Press
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:03 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:42 am
Posts: 253
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It's only going to be available through GW stores?!? Arrrrrrgh! ^*%#! Well, I was hoping to buy some of this stuff, but now I'm not too thrilled about it. There are no GW stores in my city (Portland, Oregon, USA). I never used to have trouble getting Space Marine or Titan Legions stuff, but I see that times have changed, and getting tiny little Terminators is going to be harder than I though... 
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-Ethan
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Legion 4
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Post subject: What are these? Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:30 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
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G/W US MO ... it's only a phone call or e-mail away ... I've been doing it for over 10 years ... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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