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Epic_Moderator E-A Playtest Moderator Discussion |
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| primarch |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA |
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Gandalf, I think PG be one happy dude if you dropped off the face of the earth, or at least the playtest forum! 
There are quite a few people who can say that PG is the only person they've butted heads with on the E-A Playtest Boards.
He is well aware of the issues, and I can tell a difference in his approach since then that I consider to be an improvement. For example, he now usually tries to make a softer, more complete statement about topic drift, rather than a pronouncement from on high. He is also more likely to let a subject drop as long as there is a minimum level of improvement.
I've noticed an improvement, but it's slow and my patience is close to gone. He's still jerking a lot of strings.
Both of those are suggestions that I specifically mentioned in our correspondence, so he obviously _is_ willing to listen to constructive criticism.
I think he is willing to listen to constructive criticism, but even if the constructive criticism is very gentle, he has a hard time taking it. I was forward with mine, but not cruel and he's having diffiuculty even responding.
I'd much rther have a moderator that listens without chips on his shoulder or whatever it is that makes PG so unhappy.
I think he has a way to go.
I agree. Unless he makes a very serious change quickly, I don't want to wait for him to become "kinder and gentler."
His posts as moderator are still grating sometimes, and are still too authoritative, but I am convinced that this remains unintentional.
I'm not sure if intentions are the crux of the issue. I too think that PG's "grating" is a part of his character and life experiences, but I still don't want that negativity to be a guiding part of the forum.
I've been talking with him and I think he's a decent guy once you get beyond the issues.
It seems that his perceptions (particularly in regards to Gandalf) are still colored by personal issues, but I think he is making an effort to make his moderator posts non-personal.
Because he lets his perceptions be colored by personal iossues, he moderates in a very biased and partial way. If you're not in the gang, that changes the rules for you. I'm getting a little tired of it and would like to see everyone get a fair shake.
In any case, we're stuck for now. Hopefully, you guys will take my word for it that he is trying and take that into account before being offended.
I don't think we're stuck. I think that Jervis will listen to us on this matter if we present it to him.
Take Gandalf for instance, under the right conditions, he's really mellowed out. Under the right leadership, we can see the best in people brought out.
Also, despite his abrasiveness in his PG persona, he has come up with a number of good suggestions, and I usually find his arguments to be solid from a logical standpoint, although sometimes not compelling. To that extent, I would say he is a valuable playtester.
I don't think the guy should leave the forums and agree that he's a good playtester. I like many of his suggestions as well. I just don't think he should be moderator if his behavioral patterns persist in current form.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
_________________
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| MaksimSmelchak |
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA |
OK. Look at it from this angle: - Not to be mean, but who asked PG to step down in the last week? |
I didn't ask him to step down, I suggested that if he meant all the things about the board being a mess and that if the moderatorship was giving him stress that stepping down would be in his best interest. Of course, that's more or less the same thing.
Did you ask him to step down as well?
- Which board has the most members who have disagreed with PG in the last few months?
I'd put even money that this would be that board. Of course, part of the reason that we're the largest board is that not much of the community is organized. I am 100% sure that there are more than we few who have difficulties. One of the phenomena that I've observed is how many new members gravitate to this board from the Official E-A Playtest Boards.
- Where is the largest concentration of people who have posted disagreement with the playtest?
I'd put even money that this would be that board AGAIN.
Now with those answers in mind, would you really trust this board to offer you critisism that would help make you a better person?
I would trust PG to give me criticism or, maybe I should say that I'd listen to him and fully hear him out if he had something to say to me. Of course, I'm not him either. I'm pretty mellow and most things just don't bother me anymore.
I will say again, your motives may be good, but it is not your motives that PG will use to make his choices.
OK. Understood.
It would be best if you let it drop.
I'm willing to let the conversation drop, but the gauling aggressive moderatorship is a pain.
Do you want the boards to continue as is?
I have been living with it and could indefinitely, but it does diminish an otherwise pleasant experience.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/
| MaksimSmelchak |
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm Posts: 7258 Location: Sacramento, California, USA |
The main thing keeping me from pushing to see change is PG. The guy's obviously had some pretty negative life experiences and I think he'd take it pretty hard if he was removed. I'd rather see him either make significant changes or leave in a peaceful manner. Yes, I know I'm full fo wishful thinking. I'd rather the guy had someone give him a chance and treat him with some consideration. A word of advice though, if a change of moderator is accepted, you may need to "put your money where your mouth is" and take up moderatorship on yourself because the first thing they'll ask you is "who" will do it if the current one is not liked. So before you go that route be sure you and the group that backs the proposal is in agreement before any action is taken. Otherwise you may find youself in a even greater mess. |
I'm willing to take over the moderatorship, but would rather someone else did since if I take over, it would probably be a personal afront to him.
Like I said before, just back off. It's not worth it. If you want him changed as moderator, then go through the motions, if not, just ignore the whole thing.
You're probably right. I'm just not sure if I want to be a member of the forums if we get PG in full "abrasive" form. In real life, I give such people a wide berth every time they get that way.
The bottom line is that the level of "attitude" may be lessened, but not eliminated. You'll just have to live with that.
I don't expect him to stop being himself, but I do expect him to treat others with the same civility he would like for himself.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
_________________
6mm Sci-fi:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/6mm ... nWarGames/
My Personal Blog:
http://6mm-minis.blogspot.com/
| Tas |
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Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am Posts: 7823 Location: Sydney, NSW |
Well, maybe he should wonder why that is such a popular pastime. That man s$%^s me to tears and isn't worth my time discussing. I'm glad he is mellowing and, yes, he does come out with some valid and well-thought out ideas, not all of them are his, but he claims them regardless (yes, I speak from experience). - As a valued playtester: yes. - As a moderator: no. - As a bloke I would punch in the face if he spoke to me in person the way he posts: certainly!  But that's probably too many years of military conditioning colouring my view! 
_________________ Tas My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/ My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/ My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/ |
| primarch |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA |
This may be my "unsympathic New York side" talking, but why should you or anyone else CARE about whatever "bad life experiences" he's had. That is NO excuse for abrasive behaviour. No one has the right to act like a "poo-poo head" (sorry I just HAD to use that one since you first said it  ), because he may had a less than fortunate ride getting to this point in life.I think that your beyond wishful thinking, his personality traits as exhibited in his posts show no real middle ground or "compromise" to be reached. You either put up with what and who he is or you get him "removed." I'm willing to take over the moderatorship, but would rather someone else did since if I take over, it would probably be a personal afront to him. |
Regardless of WHO takes over, he knows all those principal characters who had a say in it happening, so he WILL take it personally no matter who gets to slap the moderator title on.
You're probably right. I'm just not sure if I want to be a member of the forums if we get PG in full "abrasive" form. In real life, I give such people a wide berth every time they get that way.
Well, thats no doubt your choice, but sometimes you DO have to be somewhat "not-nice" and do what's best for the playtest forum and have him removed, because, after all, you have as much right to be on the list as anyone else and to ENJOY it. Anything that detracts from that should be changed, if not removed.
I don't expect him to stop being himself, but I do expect him to treat others with the same civility he would like for himself.
What IF being himself is to continue to do what you dislike?
What will you do then?
Seriously, Maksim, it all comes down to how much you care to be on those forums. If at the end of the day it doesn't mean much, then walk away, you've got better things to do.
But if you do care or have a different vision of how it should be you'll need to change it and it would be unrealistic to expect those involved in the "change" will be happy about it, understand it or otherwise be "irked" by it.
As Jimbo said "you can't please everyone all the time," so don't try.
Primarch.
, just some Battlefleet Gothic stuff ?
, and I only got half of my order even thought the order sheet said it was complete! 
