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Epic Supplements
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Mixing Intellectual Properties might actually be a good way to get GW to take notice.... and shut us down. :)

Not a good idea.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 pm 
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Well, I sent an email to Andy asking for his comments on the idea - I'll let you know which way he goes.


Gary

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:36 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 24 2007,16:24)
QUOTE
Mixing Intellectual Properties might actually be a good way to get GW to take notice.... and shut us down. :)

Not a good idea.

Yeah, I know.   :(

Shame though - between GW, DRM, Exodus, Baccus and a few others, most of the figures one could want to play epic are actually available.

Orde

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orangesm
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:53 pm 
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I have the Cadians and am willing to paint up some using the Cadian 8th Colors for the supplement.  Also Ulthwe needs to be added to the list of "Black Crusade" armies.  I am unsure whether or not we want to drop the Cadians or the Daemonhunters from the list (limit of 3-4)

For "Third Sphere", if we want to include 5 armies (seems like alot) then the two Guard Armies would be Tallarn Armoured Regiment (they were on Taros) and Elysians.  Going back to 3-4 list one would need to be 'dropped' if we want to keep Alaitoc. The Invasion of Taros was in 998.M41 - the very beginning of the Third Sphere colonization so it works alright there, but should the campaign be Taros or a larger Tau expansion.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:04 pm 
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In case you haven't read it, you should read the Third Sphere campaign by the former Tau Army Champion, JimmyGrill, linked to in this thread.

It was the basis for my Kleistians, and it's an excellent campaign in its own right.

Plus, there is plenty of room to add in roles for the likes of the Alaitoc (I'm thinking of having them  hit a number of worlds 'for no good reason' - but the Imperial responses to each make the responses to the Tau expansions that little bit harder to operate...) and the Elysians (as forces against which the Tau operated on specific worlds in the Campaign).

And I'd stick with 4 lists for Third Sphere - and drop the Tallarns (Elysians are much more interesting!).

And I totally forgot about the Ulthw? list in the email to Andy - oh well, if he likes the basic principle they can be added later.


Gary




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Swordwind uses 48 pages of its 80 page length on rules (Datafaxes, army lists, collector's stats etc).

If one were to adhere to this format for Online suppliments, with an average of 12 pages each you could have 4 lists.

A quick bit of counting tells me that:

The Black Legion list has 13 pages (Plus Daemons)
The LATD list has 11 Pages (Plus Daemons)
And there're 5 pages of Daemons common to both.

So uh, that's 29 pages of the 48 budget right there. :D

That leaves 19 pages for other lists.

By way of comparison, I could cut the Krieg list back to 11 pages by eliminating duplicates from the Steel Legion list. I'd expect a Cadian list would be quite a bit smaller (As it'd have far more commonality with the Steel Legion list).

How big would a Daemonhunters-only list be? Would it really need 30 datafaxes? (10 pages, plus 1 for the armylist).


It's interesting to note that a good chunk of Swordwind is given over to 'modeling fortifications', which could be given over to 'modeling a ruined hive' or somesuch (Those plastic ruins sprues would be great there...)


Anyone want to run the numbers on the preliminary lists for 'Third Sphere' and see if the budget balances?




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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:42 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 24 2007,14:05)
QUOTE
Swordwind uses 48 pages of its 80 page length on rules (Datafaxes, army lists, collector's stats etc).

If one were to adhere to this format for Online suppliments, with an average of 12 pages each you could have 4 lists.

A quick bit of counting tells me that:

The Black Legion list has 13 pages (Plus Daemons)
The LATD list has 11 Pages (Plus Daemons)
And there're 5 pages of Daemons common to both.

So uh, that's 29 pages of the 48 budget right there. :D

That leaves 19 pages for other lists.

I don't think we need to worry all that much - the whole point is that we don't have a budget. While making it comparable to swordwind is of course nice, I don't think a few extra pages would be a problem.

How big would a Daemonhunters-only list be? Would it really need 30 datafaxes? (10 pages, plus 1 for the armylist).


As for the Daemonhunters, the list is linked to here:
http://www.geocities.com/lordinquisitor/

There's 12 datafaxes for the Inquisition troops, plus 10 for the Grey Knights, plus 5 generic Imperial transports (not necessary to include but nice to have them all together).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:56 pm 
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So figuring 3 datafaxes per page (And assuming that nothing gets cut) plus one page for the armylist, you're looking at about 10 pages (perhaps less) there.

Sounds good for fitting into a Suppliment alongside Chaos anyways.

I don't think we need to worry all that much - the whole point is that we don't have a budget. While making it comparable to swordwind is of course nice, I don't think a few extra pages would be a problem.


Aye, t'is true. :)

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:37 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jan. 24 2007,16:56)
QUOTE
So figuring 3 datafaxes per page (And assuming that nothing gets cut) plus one page for the armylist, you're looking at about 10 pages (perhaps less) there.

About that. I'd definately need at least a page for "how to use the army list" type thing.

I'm still pondering the "Black Crusade" thing. Are we sure we want to set it there - it leaves us less room for creativity than if we used a made-up conflict. There's a lot of background that we'd want to stay true to in White Dwarfs around the time of the campaign which aren't all that easy to get hold of (I don't have them anymore, anyway).
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orangesm
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Well maybe we should choose an earlier Black Crusade for the Chaos centered book - that way we can be creative.  The 12th Crusade was the Gothic War, the Eye of Terror was the 13th Crusade... so what if we went with the 11th or 10th Black Crusade?  Localize the conflict a bit more.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:06 am 
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There is nearly no full about previous BlackCrusades. Only the 13th and 12th (GothicWar) are somwhat described.

And whats the fuss about Epic Cadians are OOP? There where never been Epic Cadians. If you talk about the old (SM2nd era)IG infantry then this where generig IG infantry.
At the time of SM2nd the different regiments (Cadians, Valhallans, Tallarns,etc )didn't exist yet.

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:14 am 
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Ah, but aren't the 'new' vehicles (Defilers, Hell Blades, Hell Talons etc) supposed to have been specifically designed for the 13th Black Crusade?

And the 13th saw the forces of Chaos seriously mess up Cadia itself, and cause havoc across the Segmentum Obscurus. It's really the only choice.

And I'd point out that Epic: Armageddon itself doesn't cover wars 1 and 2 (well, you can use the book to fight out 2, if you drop the odd unit type here and there) - it focusses on 3... which is still raging at the time of the Eye of Terror Campaign.

And you missed Ulthw?!


Gary




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:22 pm 
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And whats the fuss about Epic Cadians are OOP? There where never been Epic Cadians. If you talk about the old (SM2nd era)IG infantry then this where generig IG infantry.


Aye but they're pretty much 90% accurate to today's Cadians, at least at Epic scale.


Ah, but aren't the 'new' vehicles (Defilers, Hell Blades, Hell Talons etc) supposed to have been specifically designed for the 13th Black Crusade?

Aye.


And the 13th saw the forces of Chaos seriously mess up Cadia itself, and cause havoc across the Segmentum Obscurus. It's really the only choice.

We could probably pick a single planet somewhere in the Segmentum Obscurus, to allow us a little more freedom as to the forces involved, rather than Cadia (Which limits the armies involved to just Chaos & Imperial forces).

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Nerroth
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:05 pm 
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I wasn't thinking of limiting the action to Cadia itself, but allowing players to fight out battles across the sectors involved (ORk players can join in at Scarus, and so forth).

And I got a replay from Andy:

Hi Gary,

If your website will host these fan-created projects then I'll happily link to them as and when they are produced. So no problems there.

Regarding the Tau stuff, I'll try and get that fixed in February.

Cheers
Andy


(The 'Tau stuff' relates to one of the BFG Armada pdfs that needs to be fixed...)

So, I'm thinking we could do the project anyway, and send it to Andy to see if he feels like putting it up at that stage - and the worst he can do is upload a lik to the TC site (assuming CyberShadow wants to host the pdf.)


Gary

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:16 pm 
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(Nerroth @ Jan. 25 2007,11:05)
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I wasn't thinking of limiting the action to Cadia itself, but allowing players to fight out battles across the sectors involved (Ork players can join in at Scarus, and so forth).

Hang on... surely the point of a supplement concentrating on a limited number of armies is that the conflict can involve specifically those armies?
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