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Assault & CC hits
Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:24 am 
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Necrons and AMTL - I don't think highly exp lists should drive core rule development.

For most lists it actually makes very little difference (eg Imp, Orks, Eldar only have 1-2 TK's max (which they'd have to be in b/c to use anyway),  and have similar FF and CC).

However for Chaos and Nids it does make more of a difference, and I admit that is a problem in terms of game play. I have actually been using it for my Nids in some games and it doesn't seem that bad, but perhaps more because Nid WE are pretty crap at the moment in general and in need of a boost.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:05 pm 
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The point is I and others don't think the proposals work perfectly Hena, otherwise there wouldn't be a whole long thread of people getting confused in various ways.  
Thus suggestions to improve them are called for, such as consolidating in some fashion, or removing/moving unnecessary bits.  I'm throwing some suggestions out to that end and wanting them to be criticised as you have just done.

Why don't you come up with something as you offered to before that just tweaks things and fixes the rules so everyone can understand them easily? I'm sick of using my brain for the moment. :D

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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Hena, Neal just proposed some different things or at least that was my impression. Such as the TK hits MUST be allocated. Or did he? Not advocating for it I just want to know.

Also you missed out 3.3.2.

Also this is leaving the allocating hit rules spread over 5 different sections then? Is there anyway this can be made clearer?

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:05 am 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 11 2007,17:23)
QUOTE
Hena, Neal just proposed some different things or at least that was my impression. Such as the TK hits MUST be allocated. Or did he? Not advocating for it I just want to know.

Also you missed out 3.3.2.

Also this is leaving the allocating hit rules spread over 5 different sections then? Is there anyway this can be made clearer?

I think Neal did mention having TK hits scored during an assault be forced hit to a WE (I assume that's only when a WE is present). Can that be done without too much verbage?

Perhaps just have a third round of hit placement: normal then MW then TK. TK hits in the TK round go toward the nearest targetable WE up to their starting DC, then to the next closest WE (or if one doesn't exist, to the closest normal unit). This would allow a WE in CC to run interferrence for the rest of his formation by absorbing some/all of the hits in each "round" of hit assignment.

I'll point out that since the rules already state that when shooting, the player firing the TK weapon MUST CHOOSE between specifically targeting the WE or targeting the rest of the formation. That means that the blue paragraph under 3.2.5 (right before the Example of Play) in your handbook will need to be reworded in any case.

Is there any way to have WE
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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:31 am 
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(semajnollissor @ Oct. 11 2007,23:05)
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I'll point out that since the rules already state that when shooting, the player firing the TK weapon MUST CHOOSE between specifically targeting the WE or targeting the rest of the formation. That means that the blue paragraph under 3.2.5 (right before the Example of Play) in your handbook will need to be reworded in any case.

Absolutely. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what should happen!  :D

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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:09 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 12 2007,05:59)
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In perhaps makes it easier to grasp while learning part of the rules. To me most mistakes come from having too many sets of rules that are mixed up (as it seems is with your handbook).

Hena - is there anything specifically confusing about the Handbook except the TK 'must' hit section (that obviously needs to be fixed in some way - depending on what Neal says)?  Given that it is just the rules with change documents incorporated I would hope that there is nothing else?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:13 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 12 2007,05:59)
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Perhaps a FAQ might be in order, but I wouldn't start rewriting the rulebook to try to force it all into one place.

I don't think forcing it into one place is possible, but is it possible to have it in less than 5?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:45 am 
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(Hena @ Oct. 12 2007,06:20)
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(Markconz @ Oct. 12 2007,09:13)
QUOTE

(Hena @ Oct. 12 2007,05:59)
QUOTE
Perhaps a FAQ might be in order, but I wouldn't start rewriting the rulebook to try to force it all into one place.

I don't think forcing it into one place is possible, but is it possible to have it in less than 5?

With the forwards notes, it's about in one or two places. I think that's a good way to do it. Just think that the assault specific note, should be in assault section instead of shooting (the WE must thing that I noted there).

That splits things up even more.

Rather than just having in the close combat section:

*Hits are allocated as for shooting.

You would have:

*Hits are allocated as for shooting, and while you go there and read that, try to remember this and this.

This makes it even more difficult than it already is!

:(

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thurse
 Post subject: Assault & CC hits
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:40 am 
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Some more points :
- if a formation receives disrupt and normal hits, the defender chooses which unit get the disrut and which unit gets the normal hits right?

- Should lance weapon hits be allocated during the MW allocation phase or during the normal phase? Now I think it is during the normal phase, but is it the best solution?
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