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Siegfried on SG
primarch
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:28 pm 
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Hi!

I dont mind a titan getting a pounding from ground troops who are suitably positioned in fortified areas and with heavy weapons. It the idea of a bunch of grunts running in open ground and "swarming" a titan I find to hard to swallow, that tactic should have ZERO chance of success, but we all know that most versions of epic allowed it.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:39 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 22 2003 Aug.,09:28)
Hi!

I dont mind a titan getting a pounding from ground troops who are suitably positioned in fortified areas and with heavy weapons. It the idea of a bunch of grunts running in open ground and "swarming" a titan I find to hard to swallow, that tactic should have ZERO chance of success, but we all know that most versions of epic allowed it.

Primarch

I think this is the hard part of basing a game on d6 results. You jump in 16.5% with each "pip" on the dice.

If it was based on d% then you could offer those 1 in a hundred chances.

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primarch
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:24 pm 
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Hi!

No question Dafrca, the d6 only game mechanic is so outdated. I dont know why GW persists in them, its not much of a difference cost-wise to make a bunch of d10's instead of d6's. Most game designers have moved on to higher die types, even d20, of like DSII using polyhedral dice in a mix.

Maybe someday they'll tire of d6's and produce a game with a wider probability range.

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stormseer
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:31 pm 
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Inquisitor is a D10 system...?  ???

-However that was a completely new game, so perhaps the designers agree with you Primarch, and decided on them for the very reasons you outline.... This makes me think- not being too knowledgeable on the rules, I'm interested as to wether Epic:A would have been suited to a D10 system...

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dafrca
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:11 pm 
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Quote (stormseer @ 22 2003 Aug.,13:31)
Inquisitor is a D10 system...? ????

-However that was a completely new game, so perhaps the designers agree with you Primarch, and decided on them for the very reasons you outline.... This makes me think- not being too knowledgeable on the rules, I'm interested as to wether Epic:A would have been suited to a D10 system...

As Jervis was starting over, he could have started with any die type and built the new rules around that die, but he ellected to continue with the d6. Not sure why, it could have been fine with any of the types.

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primarch
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:52 pm 
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Hi!


As Jervis was starting over, he could have started with any die type and built the new rules around that die, but he ellected to continue with the d6. Not sure why, it could have been fine with any of the types.


I think that is part of the problem. Technically he didn't "start over". He used epic 40k and started from there. Since that game used d6's so does EpicA.

Had he REALLY started from scratch...well...perhaps things "may" have turned out differently.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:34 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 22 2003 Aug.,15:52)
Hi!


As Jervis was starting over, he could have started with any die type and built the new rules around that die, but he ellected to continue with the d6. Not sure why, it could have been fine with any of the types.


I think that is part of the problem. Technically he didn't "start over". He used epic 40k and started from there. Since that game used d6's so does EpicA.

Had he REALLY started from scratch...well...perhaps things "may" have turned out differently.

Primarch

When i used the words "starting over" I ment he was doing a new edition and therfor could have changed what ever he thought needed to be changed for the new edition. (Think D&D 3rd Edition, they made major changes in that edition shift).

He had the chance, he may have not taken the opportunity, but he had it. When you intro a new edition it does not have to mirror the last one at all. Or at least that is my opinion  :D

dafrca

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primarch
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:23 am 
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Hi!

He had the chance, he may have not taken the opportunity, but he had it. When you introduce a new edition, it does not have to mirror the last one at all. Or at least that is my opinion!


I agree. I would have hoped this edition would have done away with its' associations with ALL previous Epic versions. Start afresh without preconceptions on which edition it was needed to be based on. I think it was important, just on the basis of perception to start from scratch and make fresh new start.

This is because Epic-A will not be measured as a game in its' own right, but will be measured as to how it stands up to Epic-40k or SM/TL. Those who like Epic-40k will pick on those points in common with SM/TL and, on the other side of the coin, others will do the opposite. That's the problem of any systems that is based on the presumption of being "the best of both version," an unreachable goal IMHO.

I would have prefered a system pitched as "a revolutionary new game design very different from previous versions of Epic." Whether it is truly revolutionary or not wouldn't be the point, but at least it doesn't seek to emulate or "follow," but lead.

Perception is everything in marketing and rather than the new Epic be a melding of games, it would have been nice that it had had nothing in common with older Epic versions.

Just my usual dollar fifty.

Primarch.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 4:57 am 
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Yes,

I agree that unless you come up with some Commando Assault rule/system, massed infantry attacks on a Titan should have little chance of success. However massed combined arms fires should cause some level of damage, and enough could crash the damned thing! ?

D6 vs. D10:

I could go either way on this, however G/W is nothing if not "traditional." They are still using the Standard Stats lines from the original D&D for 40K! You know the BS/WS/TS etc., etc., - how quaint! ?

With Epic and with 40K, the last version's models should be usable with the new rules, regardless. D10 would be too big a paradigm shift for the G/W crew and 15-year-old comic book reading crowd that likes bright shiny things... :;):

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Tas
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:15 am 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 22 2003 Aug.,00:03)
I was apparently suffering under an Americo-centric delusion that all the naval vessels were more heavily armed than armored. Go fig.
Alright. ?I take back my angry face and admit that it was my misunderstanding. Mea Culpa! (and thanks for the education)
:D


No, you are EXACTLY right. My comments ranged over a century of naval evolution, but today most certainly armament FAR FAR outweighs armour. 95% of the world's combatants are completely unarmoured except maybe for some kevlar around vital areas for defense versus shrapnel damage.

The metal that DD/FF's are made from is much thinner than even the hulls of merchant ships. Why? Weight, pure and simple. If I can go faster with the same engine with less weight, or (engage cynicism mode) use a smaller cheaper engine to make my specified speed then I'll take the cheaper route.

Missiles cause horrendous damage these days, and the days of armour are gone. A single Torpedo will tear a DD in half and sink it within minutes. Far better not to get hit in the first place. The Chinese Navy doesn't even practice damage control; they assume any ship that it hit with a modern missile is an automatic write-off...

So Neal, bask in the knowledge that your assumptions were indeed correct! :;):

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:40 am 
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Well Tas,

You are a Navy man so your word is good enough for me! ?:;): ?

And I love the Chinese version of damage control! :laugh: ?

I never heard that before!

So in my mind, since we see Epic as a "Hi-tech" version of WWII, Titans fit into the old WWII version of warships - lots of armor & lots of firepower!

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong... :laugh:

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Tas
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:22 pm 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 23 2003 Aug.,14:40)
And I love the Chinese version of damage control! :laugh: ?

I never heard that before!

I'm sure you think more of it than the Chinese sailors do! :D

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Tas
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:24 pm 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 23 2003 Aug.,14:40)
So in my mind, since we see Epic as a "Hi-tech" version of WWII, Titans fit into the old W.W.II version of warships - lots of armor & lots of firepower!


Sure- W.W.2 Battlewagons. Today's warships are more what was described here as a light weapons platform - a method of moving and employing a variety of weapons but not necessarily being able to absorb much damage.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:08 pm 
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I'm not sure if I have high regard for Chinese sailors, but I like the "All-you-can-eat" ?Buffet, their cousins have near the mall! ?:laugh: ?:laugh: ?:blush: ?

And yes, like I said, I see Titans like W.W.II BBs/BCs, etc.

But it's a matter of perception and taste - hey, I really don't care if they are used as paper weights and somewhere to hang your car keys! :laugh:

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Tas
 Post subject: Siegfried on SG
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:47 am 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 24 2003 Aug.,00:08)
hey, I really don't care if they are used as paper weights and somewhere to hang your car keys! :laugh:

I do...

Anyone using their Titans in this manner should call me- and I'll make you an offer for them! :D

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