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Epic charge-across-the-board armies
Khorne Berzerkers 22%  22%  [ 5 ]
Khorne L&D 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Slaanesh L&D 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Heavily Goffik Orks 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Close-comnat oriented Kult of Speed 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Tyranids 74%  74%  [ 17 ]
Dark Eldar Wych themed army 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Blood Angels 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Space Wolves 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Kroot 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 23

Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...

 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 11:24 am 
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BUGS!
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BUGS!
 
cuz they have too....


DEVOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:p

my 2cents,

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:06 pm 
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Hi!

Bugs, although I can make up a mean close combat chaos army when I need to. :)

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:26 pm 
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Hi Guys,

I also picked the 'Nids, BUT...

I remember when the Squats and Orks were among the best at CC! :D

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:03 pm 
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Hi. I dont actually see the bugs as the army that must rush into cc anymore. They have a selection of deadly weapons which makes them nasty in a ff as well.

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:25 pm 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 29 2005 May,20:03)
Hi. I dont actually see the bugs as the army that must rush into cc anymore. They have a selection of deadly weapons which makes them nasty in a ff as well.

True CS,  but as we're not generally CC freaks, I'm trying to see which CC concept appeals most to the Epic scale - and I got the answer I expected too!  :D

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 10:33 pm 
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Hi!

Are Space wolves really close combat?

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 11:01 pm 
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Space Wolves are very close combat these days... I have never liked the close assault orientated marine armies (BA, SW, BT, and Khorne) myself.

Something I think is true in both epic and 40k is that close combat armies need lots of cover to work! My tyranids have died horribly in both epic and 40k on barren battlefields (The worst involved hundreds of epic nids trying to storm across a bridge over a Lava flow on a forge world in epic :().

40k specifies 25% of the table must be cover - though not what sort of cover unfortunately. I wish there were better rules for terrain layout in both epic and 40k. Epic40k had nice terrain tables for different worlds, though many thought they resulted in not enough terrain. There is a delicate balance between battlefields where there is too much and too little terrain IMO. One gives too much of an advantage to assault armies, the other to shooty armies.

I always thought the big problem with the 'cityfight' 40k rules must be that some armies must not have a chance versus others - guard trying to survive against nids for instance.

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:44 am 
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Hi!

I agree on your terrain analysis. Play on a barren field and ANY close combat army will be decimated. Play on a terrain packed with trees and mountains and you probably cant avoid losing to a close combat army either.

Thats why I like random terrain placement rules. At least players can't plan ahead with terrain features they dont know before hand.

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:38 am 
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I have never thought that the rules accurately reflect the courage required to stand and face a chitting horde rushing at you intent on devouring you...

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:37 pm 
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Hi!

Morale rules are something highly abstracted in all GW games. In Heresy I used a DSII like morale system which would require such checks.

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 4:01 pm 
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Terrain is a critical factor in wargames (and the real thing !).  Mixed to Closed works for us.  We are looking at morale/leadership rules and SM1/SM2E40K all had weaknesses ... I'll be studying E:A more closely ...

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:14 pm 
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Hi Peter,

Primarch: Morale rules are something highly abstracted in all GW games. In Heresy I used a DSII like morale system which would require such checks.


And yet, I find that the DS-II system doesn't differentiate troop quality and morale status very well either... ???

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 5:29 pm 
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I think the whole troop quality and morale staus in wargames can never be more then an abstract attempt to capture something we can not even explain now.

How do you quantify Audy Murphy? How do you quantify the fact that a man will stay at his post one battle and run the next.

I believe most wargames either ignore it or over focus on it.

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:29 pm 
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Quote (Tas @ 30 2005 May,11:38)
I have never thought that the rules accurately reflect the courage required to stand and face a chitting horde rushing at you intent on devouring you...

Well historically, troops have often fought to the death - IF they have no option to surrender, and no route of escape.  That's why in "The Art of War' Sun Zu recommends always allowing an 'escape corridor' so that the fleeing troops may be massacred with little danger to your own troops.

Certain death if you run (bugs go faster), versus a chance to live if you stay and fight...

The 'fighting like a cornered rat' reaction applies to all animals I am aware of, including humans :)

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 Post subject: Warmaster haos General Archaon Lord of the...
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:59 pm 
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Hi!

True Maksim, it does not differentiate. I remember one debate with Kenneth Peters with whom I created the original game and my main beef with two separate stats is adding needless mechanics. I found that one unififed stat was just as good and created the right effect.

Then again, DS-II is the only game I can remember at this scale for sci-fi that even attempts to address morale and unit quality. While not perfect, it's pretty good.

Primarch.

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