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Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
Jaldon
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:09 am 
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However, I have a grave and deep concern ?

There is a forum demon that hunts me, really I am not crazy, just ask PG or Neal Hunt, they know

It has stalked me ever since I started working on Epic-A way way back when :L

The first time it was kind, sorta just a warning shot across my bow, as it were, and the number of the beast then was 759 :(

The second time the beast ?toyed with me and let me get the holy number up to over 800 before the next shot came :(

Then it was cruel, the beast ?had made me believe it had gone, it let me bring the holy number up to 1200, but alas it hadn't gone, and as sure as the sun will rise the shot came in straight and true. :(

I am not kidding, every time I get my post count up near, or just over, 1,000 the forum I am on either folds up or changes and I gotta start back at zero again

In an attempt to sooth the beast in the SG forum I have started to count backwards as the forum counter moves forward, hopefully this will confuse the beast.

I can only hope he hasn't followed me here into this sanctuary, *looks left and right and then makes the holy sign of the emoticon*

Jaldon :O




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Legion 4
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:54 pm 
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Don't worry "J", you got a long way to go to hit a Grand or more !  I'm over 6 Grand !  I'm very verbose !  :laugh:

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:09 am 
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First of all, sorry to dig up an old topic. And doubly sorry to do it just to echo just about everybody else by saying I really like your post and agree with nearly everything.

Do you mind if I save this pearl of your wisdom to be quoted later somewhere?

However, I think the one point below should be clarified somewhat.


So for a wargame to reflect the real world it has to function so that a single turn occurs in the same, or less, amount of real time then what is being represented by the game on the table. If it does then the gaming generals have to make the same snap decisions that the real commanders have too, and this allows both sides to actually perform maneuvers.


Real general's troops in RealWurld™ can move by themselves, simultaneously and even make some decisions by themselves while a mini wargamer has to physically push his troops around and make all the decisions for them. The larger the game the longer this takes.

So, for the abovementioned reason it's not the TURN which should take that little time but the decision making time, i.e. the time to give orders.  That should indeed be far more limited to allow for somewhat "realistic" simulation of the stress combat situation brings on the commanders. :)

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Jaldon
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:28 am 
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The larger the game, the more friends you have playing the game, the more bodies to push minis arond with, the more sharp the jokes, the more fun had.

Actually if the number of minis reaches the point that the players cannot carry out the turn in the time frame alotted for a single turn, then the battle your playing is too big and you need more friends involved.

Using 15mm figs me and my friend Burke tried to play the Battle of Gettysburg on a 5'x15' table using a Brigade scale set of rules. Now the rules themselves worked well, and we had, had loads of fun fighting smaller battles, but this monster took too long to play out a turn, and we were spending less time enjoying the game.

Mid way through the second days battle we backed everything up to the first day, declared a "Weekend Wargame", called our gaming friends, and then with six players (three on a side) we fought the whole thing over two days and had a great time.

Sorry to disagree, but I still stand on my original point, and if you are playing too large of a battle then you players to move it along then you are not having as much fun as you would if you weren't.

Jaldon

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:14 pm 
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Hi Guys,

You ought to check out "Piquet," a rule set designed to simulate the fog of war and imperection of battlefield observation.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:21 am 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 27 2005 July,17:14)
Hi Guys,

You ought to check out "Piquet," a rule set designed to simulate the fog of war and imperection of battlefield observation.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

You have any personal experiences/opinions to share? I've read some very mixed feedback about the game in the net; it seems to be one of those rulesests you either love or hate.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:34 am 
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Quote (Jaldon @ 27 2005 July,09:28)
The larger the game, the more friends you have playing the game, the more bodies to push minis arond with, the more sharp the jokes, the more fun had.

Actually if the number of minis reaches the point that the players cannot carry out the turn in the time frame alotted for a single turn, then the battle your playing is too big and you need more friends involved.

Assuming one even HAS that many firends. Not to mention friends who practice wargaming.  :L

I don't have but I still want to play large battles.


Using 15mm figs me and my friend Burke tried to play the Battle of Gettysburg on a 5'x15' table using a Brigade scale set of rules. Now the rules themselves worked well, and we had, had loads of fun fighting smaller battles, but this monster took too long to play out a turn, and we were spending less time enjoying the game.

Mid way through the second days battle we backed everything up to the first day, declared a "Weekend Wargame", called our gaming friends, and then with six players (three on a side) we fought the whole thing over two days and had a great time.

Sorry to disagree, but I still stand on my original point, and if you are playing too large of a battle then you players to move it along then you are not having as much fun as you would if you weren't.

Jaldon


I guess we have to agree to disagree, then, as I am standing on my point. And I have a limited selection of friends. If the time goes to moving minis and such, well, that's what the game is all about and I don't mind. If, OTOH, it goes to rules debates and browsing an endless encyclopedia of obscure rules to find modifier 2.3.1.2.34.56.98769 or somesuch it is a different thing altogether.

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Jaldon
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:08 am 
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I do know of two of my friends that endlessly slog through "Drag Nach Osten/Undeschiedan" over an expanded pool table. They get about two or three turns done a week.

They are having loads of fun, and I do know it because I have talked to both of them and they plan 'offensives', and plan their airpower shifts, etc..... It is very interesting to 'bring it up' during other less involved games with them to see how it is getting along.

But, both of them are dedicated to what they are playing, they can keep it set up so they are allowed to take their time, and both of them know the game very well. Also I don't think either of them cares who wins in the end because they are just having fun playing the game.

Within this tight set of criterion one can have fun with a 'big game' and only have a few players.

So really it does depend on the people involved.

Also, I have played in and run campaigns that took a year plus to complete, but they were based around a simple set of rules for fighting the battles so the campaign didn't drag, and the players involved were dedicated to playing it, so it worked.

In general we aren't really "disagreeing" as we both see needlessly complex rules as a waste of time and effort.

But I also have no problem with someone disagreeing with me, heck if everyone agreed with me it would be a real boring world, besides I have learned much from people who have disagreed with me.

Jaldon :O

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:24 pm 
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In general we aren't really "disagreeing" as we both see needlessly complex rules as a waste of time and effort


Not in that respect, no.  :) We are just disagreeing on acceptable turn length, pushing minis around included.  :;):

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zak
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:38 pm 
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We once played "Highway to the Reich", for charity (Scottish War Blinded).Three 3 man teams a side playing 8 hour shifts each.(18 players).

It took us nearly 3 days to finish it.

Now that was real slog , but also a lot of fun. :D

Monty would have been pleased this time round , Guards Armoured motored up the road all the way to Arnhem.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:16 am 
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Sounds like fun ... and for a good cause.  And Monty would be pleased ! :;):

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Tas
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:14 am 
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So would the Brit paras! :D

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:59 pm 
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And Polish Paras, too ! :;):

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Tas
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:17 am 
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Indeed!

As an aside, my friend and I on our "Boyz War Tour of Europe" a few years ago drove the full 40 Corps route up into Arnhem, stopping naturally at all the sights of interest along the way including Einhoven (sp?) of "Band of Brothers" fame.  It was excellent! :D

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Epic-A, Realism and Gaming
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:19 am 
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Wow !  I would have loved to have been there with you ! :D

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