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Support Craft
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:29 am 
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I think a special rule should be the barest minimum, then with any other variables being included int he unit datafax. Take for example the proposed 'disposable' and the humble gretchin and drone.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:45 am 
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MY gaming buddy and I discussed this again tonight ... The Manta is the Tau version of a Titan, even the old version of the rules states that ... So we are using as a big dropship ... It planetfalls, disembarks it load, then is a skimmer with pop-up ... It's job after it drops it's troops is to support those troops, by killing enemy Titans and War Engines  The Support Craft rating is again, a muddying of the waters, in our opinions. When ever we look at rules, we look at what was the intent (besides to make and sell more models, regardless how they effect the game !).  So in our minds and we've played over 100 Epic games since '90, the Manta is the Tau Titan ... and that's how we will use it ... And will not include Support Craft rules ... more detail that has a "cascade affect" ... that changes the existing paradigm on our gaming table. We know how to play with Skimmers, Dropships and Titans ... So we are keeping it simple without being "unrealistic" and causing a rewriting of the "laws of physics" !  :;):  So DWWFY ! :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:09 am 
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But L4 do you hide it behind woods? With a large flat model its easier to do so than with a warlord.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:17 am 
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Yes ... just like we do with Thunderhawks or  skimmers ... or just like an AH-64 or Hind-D ... We've been using this technique since SM2.  It works ! And it's concept is based on reality ... and experiences with Cobras and Apaches, not Alien spacecraft ... :alien:

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:40 am 
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Yeah ... but I'm figuring the Tau and their allies are smart enough to make the Manta move like an attack helo gunship ! And I'm watching Star Trek Voyager right now ... and that crew can figure out anything ... So the Tau should have no problems, making a B-52 move like an AH-64 !  :laugh:

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:23 am 
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We land our thunderhawks behind trees (and occassionally in them, then sweat as we roll diff. terrain tests).

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javelin98
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:37 am 
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(Moscovian @ Apr. 20 2007,09:00)
QUOTE
Javelin made a good case against doing that but it always struck me as something you should be able to work out.

You mean some other Javelin, right?  Because I don't remember discussing this at all. And 33 is too young for senility.  Isn't it?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:53 pm 
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It was Tactica, not Javelin.  I am a big idiot.  :blush:

I guess I just like the handle 'Javelin' so much I imposed it on Tactica's good comments.

Speaking of which, as much as I'd like to push for my own suggested changes, I think the arguments made above here are valid and illustrate that the support craft rule is as good as it is going to get.

So, we are looking at getting rid of the 1st turn only section and leaving the rest as is?  And if everyone agrees on the rule is this something we can place in the core rule section?  I see no reason why it shouldn't be in the core's special rules section.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:58 pm 
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I see no reason why it shouldn't be in the core rules section of the TacComms EA board.

But 'disembarking (or embarking) only when planetfalling' has to go. Irregardless of the marginal tactical worth, it's an unrepresentative restriction.

Mantas are used to redeploy troops during battles in a similar manner to Orcas (Just a bit slower!). Having rules that specifically prevent this is odd.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Mosc:  I used Mantas for reference in my argument but I think it should apply to all Support Craft.  Breaking ZoC is a major change to the mechanics.

If you wanted to make a high-altitude, aircraft-like version of support craft which didn't interact with ZoC, that would be okay as well.  However, creating units that are effectively full-time, on-board aircraft would necessitate a much greater and comprehensive set of rules.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Good technique, TRC ... we use T/Hawks like Helo Gunships and plan on doing the same for the Manta.  In both cases ... the T/Hawk Manta (and probably Orca), with Planetfall, disembark troops, then go to skimmer mode and pop-up to attack.  By keeping it that way, there is no need for another rating, ie. Support Craft. And like I said the Manta is the Tau Titan.  And it has a lot of sci-fi appeal ... large alien aircraft hovering above the battle ... as I said before ... very theatrical !   :alien: And I can imagine a Manta popping-up and letting loose with all systems and damaging a Titan or WE !  :D

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:52 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 25 2007,14:58)
QUOTE
But 'disembarking (or embarking) only when planetfalling' has to go. Irregardless of the marginal tactical worth, it's an unrepresentative restriction.

I support this. I think that disembarking should be possible at any turn, but that all other current rules remain. My only concern is the ability to mount up a large formation at one point of the battle and ship them almost invulnerably in a war engine somewhere else.

I dont think that this will be a game breaker due to the relative low speed of the Manta and a combination of the 'always visible' and no embark and disembark on the same turn, rules. But, I would like to keep an eye on it.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Support Craft
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:08 am 
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Just consider what happens when that super-heavy transport gets shot down. :D :D :D

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