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Nid E-A Playtest: 1,000pt vs. Eldar!
primarch	Post subject: Nid E-A Playtest: 1,000pt vs. Eldar! Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA	Hi! Fifth horseman, send what you got to: primarch@caribe.net Thanks! Primarch _________________ Primarch The Primarchload Magnetized Titans Tutorial Net Epic Gold Heresy Rules
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Tas	Post subject: Nid E-A Playtest: 1,000pt vs. Eldar! Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:50 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am Posts: 7823 Location: Sydney, NSW	Quote (nealhunt @ 07 2004 Jan.,05:44) For example, the first chapter specific army in your IA is the Dark Angels. ?By the end of the list, you have six special rules: Actually neal, I found TFH's attempts to add the different flavours to the Chapters very interesting and while I wont be using many of them (if at all) I thought they did what he wanted- represented the armies in the light of the background they represent. You are quite right about GT games, but then, I hardly ever play them and vastly prefer scenarios and home grown specific engagements anyday. To each their own, as always!   _________________ Tas My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/ My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/ My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
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pixelgeek	Post subject: Nid E-A Playtest: 1,000pt vs. Eldar! Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:52 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:10 pm Posts: 2642 Location: Edmonton, Alberta	Quote (Tas @ 06 2004 Jan.,19:50) Actually neal, I found TFH's attempts to add the different flavours to the Chapters very interesting and while I wont be using many of them (if at all) I thought they did what he wanted- represented the armies in the light of the background they represent. My main issue is that many of the rules that he adds are rather complicated and also go against a stated aim of EpicA, trying to avoid the Codex-creep of 40K with new special abilities for each army that comes out. You are right, to each his own, but I really do think that TFH's army lists would be better served with some substantive editing and a more focused approach. He certainly has the energy and the imagination (and frankly more power to him for just that alone), he just needs to try to be less enthusiastic and not try to cram so many rules into the lists. A hint of the flavour is often better than too much. He should continue to produce and post lists...but I really do think that "less is more" is an adage he should take to heart _________________ Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
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the_fifth_horseman

Post subject: Nid E-A Playtest: 1,000pt vs. Eldar! Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:49 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:35 pm Posts: 1259

1.  I respectfully disagree.  For example, in the playtest forum I recently questioned the Deathwing terminators in your IA list.  You made 2 points in response - that the background reads that way and that it modeled the 40K rules(highly debatable), but your response was primarily fluff-driven. Duh. And Boris does most of special rules stuff in his lists based on the fluff... Anyway, there is a difference in saying that most of the list is modelled around the fluff ans that most of the list is fluff, isn't it? 2.  You have continued to add special rules in large quantity.  In addition, you have added multiple units that are so similar to existing units that the differences will have no difference in play, adding unnecessary complexity. For example, the first chapter specific army in your IA is the Dark Angels.  By the end of the list, you have six special rules.

Not at all. The multiple units that are similar to existing ones were added not for without a reason, as there are certain differences that make them distinct. This is one of the elements of the army specifics.
And these disting changes make the difference when playing, believe me.

Remember also, that the new special abilities and rules do not apply all at once.

Special Weapon abililty applies to some of the flame and melta weapons, and is something that would be v. good addition to the basic EA rulebook - simpler to say that Multi-Melta is a MW 5+, Special Weapon, then that it is a MW 5+ and Small Arms (MW), isn't it?

Technician is also an ability, used only by the Techmarines. I heard ppl moaning on the playtest board about what abilites the Techmarines should have and this is really simple in comparison to some ideas there.


There are also significant problems with new units and army list organization.  20% differences in WE support costs, for instance, causes a very big change in play balance.  Another example is the fact that the Iron Hands chapter could potentially have a half dozen Supreme Commanders in the form of a Venerable dreadnoughts scattered through the army.

I thought I have removed most of the WE cost change stuff... damn my failing memory.
Anyway, it is to discourage players from taking some WE's when not neccesary.

And you missed one annotation, that is placed in most lists. It reads: "No matter how clever your logic, you can have only one Supreme Commander in your army, EVER."
Only a single Ven Dread per army can be upgraded to a Supreme Commander.

Also remember, that altought there are some special rules, many of them are stuff considering deployment and army selection.

Also, what is the second rule in the Ultramarines list? I remember only including the one about Seditio Opprimere. And it is simple, as before the game you just roll to check if you get normal Battle Barge or the Seditio. What's difficult about it?

And to PG: What I'm doing is to try to put the flavor of the armies where it belongs, and streamline the rules as much as possible. Don't you remember what my first army list was like? Compare it to the EIA. See the improvement?

I don't have this much energy... when I finished adding all the new to EIA I was exhausted wreck of my former self. On other hand, sometimes I work like a maniac...

And I always need to do something...