I expect most people interested will have cast their vote and had their say by this point. Though a minority are against the idea the overall feeling of the community is clear with three quarters of respondents wanting Epic-UK lists recognised as valid to test playtest against.

I hope those of you on the Net-ERC will now discuss the proposal amongst yourselves (if you haven't already) and relax/change the rules? With a considerable majority wanting Epic-UK lists to be valid for playtesting continuing the status quo would just be petty and counter productive.

they already said (when the AMTL was rejected) lists like the epic-uk IG were passable but some others where too far removed. I'm not sure what the straw was that broke the camel's back.

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Glyn, can you post on a topic //ever// without taking a hostile and demeaning tone? Not everyone who disagrees with you is being petty and wrong. I took great pains to lay out a case based on a reasonable argument //without// calling out EUK and it's proponents. You can disagree with it as is your right, but in this and every other debate on which I've seen you post you use completely unwarranted histioronics. Get a grip, man, and settle down. I'm sick of reading your invective. And if you think I'm overreacting, then at least take a moment next time to proofread your post and ask yourself, "do I sound like a jerk here?"

As far as I can tell this topic was only brought up post hoc because a situation with AMTL arose. Has this really been a problem in other playtesting? Do players sit around and lament the fact that they can't use EpicUK lists and games don't get played as a result? Is it such a challenge to come up with an NetEA list when planning a playtest? At some point, someone decided for a reason that different lists are needed for EUK. The differences may be small, but apparently they are there for a reason. Therefore, it it my (evidently minority) opinion, that the playtesters should take a few extra minutes of effort and put together a NetEA list when testing a NetEA list. Is that effort really prohibitive? Otherwise, the community has to figure out which EUK lists are suitable. If you don't think that won't be just as, if not more, contentious than this issue, then you are deluding yourself. The most basic question has already been raised, but bears repeating: does EUK use NetEA lists for its playtests?

On a more general note, if there was some meeting of the minds between EUK and NetEA on testing I would welcome it wholeheartedly. Playtesting exchanges have worked on a small scale in the past, as in tyranid and EC/IF testing. If EUK needs an outside perspective, it would be awesome to test its lists while some NetEA lists get a systematic look from the EUK playtest team. Just something to think about.

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As I understand it, the E-UK approach was adopted because it was much quicker than the Net-EA method of approving lists, and this was necessary to support the tournament requirements (where people wanted to use particular armies or races).

As Rug says and echoed by CaptPiettt, it would greatly help the community if a common approach to testing could be adopted . . .

[quote="captPiett]Not everyone who disagrees with you is being petty and wrong. [/quote]
You misread me. I suggested the Net-ERC committee would be petty and counter productive IF they were to continue to ignore the considerable majority wanting the change. I'm not being critical of anyone personally disagreeing with the proposal.



Yes, as I pointed out earlier. There have been several years of Winter Warmer tournaments, with maybe 15-20 attendees using Net-EA and Epic-UK lists against each other. Think of all the lost playtest reports from there alone! There will also be loads of games over the years not at tournaments between the two types of list. Given that it takes a fair account of time and effort to write up a playtest there's not much motivation to post them currently if they don't contribute to playtesting.

Many players in the UK only use Epic-UK lists. Some if us prefer the Epic-UK versions of some lists and would rather use them and have or games still count.


That would be complicated and unnecessary. As per the poll the considerable majority of people here wish to recognize Epic-UK lists as valid, generally. Epic-UK don't discuss and test their lists online, but have considerable experience in epic and tournament play and producing balanced lists.

I want to bump this in the hope of getting a response from the ERC on the proposed change. Have you guys talked about it amongst yourselves, taken a vote on it or the like? If not could you please get in touch with the others and do so? It's a significant change, but I didn't raise the suggestion just out of idle curiosity, I really want to get it changed.

If the community was against it or fairly split the idea could reasonably be abandoned but the poll shows around three-quarters of the community support Epic-UK lists being allowed. Even if some of you on the ERC are against it others will likely be open to it, with some involved with Epic-UK as well. If your gaming group doesn't use Epic-UK lists your games won't be effected in any case but those of us that sometimes play cross-over games want them to be recognised as balanced enough to be valid.

People in the Titan Legion thread are unhappy that the ERC wouldn't allow the battle reports against Epic-UK lists to count, thereby slowing down the approval of the list for months now. Personally I'm just writing up a battle report from today against Alf-O-Mega that won't be allowed to be counted because one of us used an Epic-UK list and the same will be the case (with a different list) in the game we've arranged to play next. The ERC should be promoting and encouraging epic development not holding it back.

I agree with GlynG a 100%.

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I think it should be addressed officially even if it is to state categorically"no"

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It looks like all discussion and opinion has already been covered, but from my experience of testing environments in other fields, I do think it's important that someone responsible comes in here soon and ends the thread with "no".

Don't worry this is not forgotten about. Further consultation between ERC & Army Champions is being conducted.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
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I can see why you (and others) are frustrated. When I answered I was on my way to asking the current NetEA AC's for their views. I hope to have responses by next week. Then we'll finish off the ERC discussion/vote and see where we end up.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Any update on this Tim?

The ERC was split and have resolved that the ACs can make their own choices on allowing EUK lists or not. There is the proviso that we might ask for more reports if we feel the need for them.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Thanks Tim! It's good to have an answer and guidelines with this, even when it's a "yes but with subjective caveats" warning.
I think that the more opportunities and variations on builds we do the better we are off. Plus now I can challenge GlynG for some internet games and not feel bad! ha!

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He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!