Well well we'll. Think I've been playing that wrong for some time.
Thanks guys!

OK this is some juicy stuff here! I'm also glad to know that it wasn't just me that needed clarification. I wanted to go through the combat that occurred again just to clarify with myself a few key points.

0. Landa declares Air Assault, I roll a 1+ to successfully attack
1. Landa is very clever and doesn't come under AA fire on it's approach
2. Landa lands within 5cm of formation of Tau footsoldiers on overwatch.
**confirm the Tau do not Overwatch onto the Landa, they Overwatch once the troops disgorge onto the whole formation including the Landa? Does this mean you basically assume how the boyz, Nobz, and Grotz are going to unload or do I as the controlling player just assign the hits as I wish? Because the Landa is "in the rear" ie I've set it up for firefight and not close combat, would it take the last shots if there are that many hits? I don't HAVE to assign it hits unless I run out of Boyz, Grotz and Nobz? Also, my Tau opponent had 1 sniper so he may wish to assign a shot with the Sniper if it hits?** -edit- this is the part which really gets me, when does the Overwatch occur? Is it an imaginary time just before the Ork horde comes into contact with the Tau??
3. The whole formation takes a blast marker for coming under fire
**confirm that this initial BM will stay with the boyzmob after the assault is done and not split into two BM's, one for the Landa, one for the Boyzmob. What if the Tau have a sniper and the Landa does actually come under fire? Does that mean it also gets a BM when they split after the assault or no because they are currently "the same formation?"**
4. The assault commences and the unit that charged rolls his dice. The player getting charged assigns hits front to back. Saves are made.
5. The player getting charged then rolls his dice for attacks and the charging player assigns hits front to back.
6. Modifiers for assault resolution are determined (Charger had more BM's, Charger killed 3 more, Charger outnumbers (including 3 for the DC of the Landa)
7. Both players roll 2 dice and use the highest - The Tau lose and are broken.
8. The Charging force now looks at his Boyzmob and Landa separately. The Landa took no hits in the assault so has 0 BM's? The Boyzmob lost 2 Boyz which gives them 2BM's and is enough to break them. They run off leaving the Landa until the end phase.
9. The Landa is now a 0 move War Engine without BM's until the end phase at which point it may fly off.

Thank you again to all of you much more Veteran players for the clarifications you've provided!

Joel

-edit to fix order of list-

As you have presented it,

2. OW fire etc

• OW occurs *after* the charge move, so it takes place within the context of the assault process. The Landa and Orks are considered a single formation at this point, so OW falls onto the "single formation" of Orks and Landa.
• It is up to the Ork player how the Orks are positioned when they disembark. In this case the Orks are in front of the Landa, so hits would be allocated on them first (usually Grots etc). However hits could spill over onto the Landa if it is near the front of the formation (with the intention of minimising damage to the formation). The Ork player must assign hits front-to-back, but where there is a tie for 'closest' he can choose which unit to allocate a hit. Once he chooses the Landa, then up to 2 more hits get allocated to it before the next unit can be determined.
• The Sniper hit could be assigned to the Landa, but would fail to cause any damage so would *not* cause a BM

3. BM for shooting

• The BM for shooting is placed on the Ork mob (as it is nearest the shooters). Note there is only a single BM for this "single formation", so the Landa does not receive a BM for being shot at.

8. Landa post assault

• The Landa takes no BMs for OW, and if it suffered no damage during the assault, then it should have "0" BMs at this point.
• The broken Boyz *can* make a withdrawal move into the Landa without penalty to the Landa. This is a "withdrawal move", not a "consolidation move" (which would prevent the Landa from disengaging).
  If they do this,
  1. the Ork mob may attempt to rally off-table. If they fail to rally, they may not disembark as part of an assault
  2. The Landa may declare an assault under these conditions, but the assault would automatically include the attributes from the broken mob inside the transport, so would have BMs.

Note, I presume you activated the Landa before the approach move (your step "0" and "1" are reversed)

Haha, oops! Yes indeed!

Final question and I think I'll have it. As the overwatch occurs at the end of the move, I assume this means (keeping the front to back in mind) that I could very likely end up with no Orks in base to base! It's my experience that the 5cm disembark from the Landa generally only lets me get about 6 guys in base to base. (Perhaps this is where I should be modelling for advantage? ) Am I correct in my thinking? I don't get to say, "Well Frank you destroyed 4 grots a nob and a boy, so I'll just slide these 5 boyz and a nob in to take their place, m'kay?"

This is some really good imformation that will make my games much clearer with my opponents (and therefore go faster/smoother!) Thank you!!!

Joel

Ginger has described your situation good. Just wanted to add one thing.



Actually no, in the case of a fire warrior formation, then the sniper hit is an AP attack and those cannot be asigned to vehicles (as per 1.9.6)



Yeah you're correct you cannot move again after OW casualties, as the OW shot are made after the disembarkation move is completed. Bascially you have to make the tactical choise of wether to get possibly better CC attacks (boyz in CC) or the bonuses of grots dieing instead of the boyz (grotz in CC).

Can't you just land smack in the middle of the enemy formation, barge anyone under the Landa out of the way, and then disembark everyone into CC? Seems like the orky think to do...

Sure, overwatch still applies, but since everything is in CC, everything is "closest" so you can assign hits to whichever units you can best spare first.

Agreed, though you need to be careful how the Landa is positioned; if it is in contact with 6x enemy, the transported units are "locked in" and cannot fight. Also the BM for OW could be placed on either formation since both are 'closest', and AFAIK there is no FAQ for this - so probably best to toss a coin / dice to decide.

If this assault is done against Tau Firewarriors on OW, the Orks can expect to lose a lot of attackers to OW shooting. While they do not count for Assault resolution, these casualties could put the Landa in the front of the assault where it will have to survive 3x assault hits that are likely to cause 1-2 damage/BMs and could even destroy the Landa with a critical . . . . .

Runejack seems to desire to keep the Landa 'relatively' safe so wants to ensure there is at least one Ork unit closer to the Tau formation to avoid BMs as far as possible, 'just in case'.

Ultimately the correct positioning of units makes a big difference in E:A and can swing assaults significantly one way or another. Here, leading with Grots and Nobs into CC to soak up OW while getting extra CC attacks is probably the better tactic, though equally leading with Grots and Landa to absorb OW and other hits is equally valid
- so it boils down to "how lucky are your feeling . . . .punk?" to quote the immortal phrase

I was reading further on this whole "Overwatch" thing (very un-Orky!)

I found this in the rules on the top of page 17 under 1.10 Overwatch:



I think this again comes down to my misunderstanding the rules, but this tells me that he'd shoot my troops after they "unload," but then I'd assault.

I know I'm wrong, but can someone tell me why so that I understand it? It probably has to do with the Air Assault not being a true assault but more of an assault-like action after disembarking?

Thanks!

Joel

The way that 1.10 Overwatch is worded gives the formation on OW the choice of firing after the enemy moves, or after the enemy disembarks from its transport. All this happens before the enemy formation gets to shoot or assault, reducing the effect of that enemy action and possibly even blowing them away entirely. So you are correct the that "he'd shoot my troops after they 'unload,' but then I'd assault".

Note, the Air rules added a new dimension to the game. Transports planetfalling are not deemed to have made a "move" as such (they have just 'arrived'), and the use of IG Death-strikes on OW against air transports before they had disembarked their troops was deemed too powerful.

Thus in the FAQ, you will find that OW has been revised slightly:-
- OW fire against ground activations may occur before or after enemy disembarkation,
- OW fire against Air activations only occurs after enemy disembarkation.

So, if you had a mechanised mob transported in a Battlefortress making the assault, the enemy has the option of OW shooting against the transport before they unload, potentially destroying the transport and all it's contents at the same time . . . .

Hope that answers your query

Thanks!