Splendid input and splendid resume there Malakai!

And the above goes likewise for most other armies. Every list presented are presented as a specific case and more often than not breaking the ordinary TO&E (table of organisation and equipment).

And again it's looking mainly at marines and guards. Their basic list isn't that. There's far to many special formations presented as ordinary ones.
The Siege Master's list is better actually, from that perspective. It lists their base formation and what can be bolstered with after that.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

So what do you base a standard Craftworld army on if the only Craftworlds we know in detail of are so divergent from the purported baseline?

It looks like the "normal" Craftworld is merely a mean average of all the divergent bunch, and actual examples in all likelihood will have as much divergence if not more of it than the big 5.

Any army's TO&E is based on the grunts. And what they can be supported with.

If we look at Eldar that would mean there's two warhosts. Dire Avenger and Guardian. And possibly always at least one Guardian more than DA's.
The rest is either supports or upgrades. And Eldar being what they are I'd say equipment support (aspects and tanks etc) and quality upgrades (warlock, farseer etc).
Just as space marine; even if there's far to many detachments there.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I consider all this talk a waste of time and resources!

If you want to attract more people old and new to the game we need an up to date rulebook with Errata 2008 incorporated and all army lists upgraded to NetEA tournament mod level.

Base it as per above; Guardian and DA hosts and more G than DA. That is what every army is.

No, the normal craftworld is not the avarage of presented special ones. The special ones are separate whiskers on the standard deviation field.

Answers about where to start Eldar is hereby done and finished. Thanks for the deciding input Malakai.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

No offense man but it's our time to waste.

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

Maybe it is, at least if this is typical input...  

And you're absolutely right that army lists must be upgraded to netEA tournament level.
It's that "mod" that is counter-productive until upgraded is done.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I have no idea what the hell "mod" means..

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

Thanks, realisation is the base of discussion.  

I agree that it's harder to see what I disagree with for IG.
I think it's that IG regiments are usually presented a lot more specialized. You get mechanized regiments OR artillery regiments OR tank regiments. Not mechanized tank artillery regiments.
Something around that line of thought.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I took it to mean Specialized TO&E...  

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Ah! Well I can see why one might believe that it may be a waste of time to work on more lists when the ones we have aren't play-tested fully enough to be considered "tournament balanced."

But I don't think it's a bad thing to give ideas as to what direction we would like to see the new lists take in the future.

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

And that is also true. A brigade (which a 3k-5k netERC* is) will have infantry, armour and artillery. But also specialization as per where from they are. And as support elements are free (in platoon, a third) this can be achieved that way.
But the full plethora isn't allowed. Main formation/s and support to that. That sound more plausible.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Erik M and Malakai:

While I understand your point that using the Biel-Tan list as default Eldar and Steel Legion for IG isn´t 100% true to fluff, the necessary modifications are so staggeringly miniscule that I fail to see your point:

Eldar: Replace Aspect Warhost with Aspect Troupe of 4 (as in Ulthwé), add Supreme Commander upgrade for 0-1 Farseer (again, see Ulthwé -> Seer Council), remove Void Spinner, done. Even using standard Biel Tan, there is no one forcing you to build a force around 4 Aspect Warhosts, and this is exactly what a "stand-in" list is supposed to do: Provide a framework to build tournament-legal lists from.

If you prefer a proper "Craftworld Eldar" variant list, make one instead of complaining that there isn´t one.


IG: The list has already all the options included, the only thing defining it as "Steel Legion" is the mechanized Regimental HQ formation. Allow a single mechanized or infantry company to take a Supreme Commander @ 100 points, done.


And, like Warphead, I´d love to see a comprehensive document with updated lists and rules, a Handbook 2009.

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