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E:A  Rise of the Dracon
consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:01 pm 
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Thanks, Ilushia.  We really appreciate the work.

Do you want to put it up in a seperate thread for review and discussion or would you rather leave it here until some people have had a chance to look it over and comment?

I'll look at it tonight when I have my rule books around for comparison and offer any input, assuming I have anything of value to say.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:02 pm 
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For now I was planning on leaving it in this section. We can always move it later. I'm sure there're a fair number of things in need of review. But I tried to convey them as best I could and price them appropriately to their size and power as comparative to already-existing models.
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Vermis
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:59 pm 
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Looks fine to me at first glance, though I'm no expert.  Mostly some names to sort out, but I suppose that's my job.
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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:33 am 
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I'm no expert either, but it looks pretty good.  Most of the stuff looks priced fairly, formation sizes look good.  List looks pretty simple and straightforward which is good.  I hope we'll get some more experienced input on this.  Nice work Ilushia, much faster than I expected too.  

Hate to poke at it, but the cold ones riders still says saurus bikers.  
The Skink chief still needs to be added.  He's just a basic leader.  I don't know if we have a place for him, but there is a Skink commander as well.
Need to confirm this with Vermis, but unless we change them from original fluff, I don't think Scar veterans should have an form of the leader ability.
Temple Guards should be an upgrade for the Slann Mage Priest, not a formation of their own.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:21 pm 
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Well the idea was that you could field temple-guards alone (Representing them defending an area of great import to the Lizardmen) field them with a slann (as his bodyguard) field them and put them in a Floating Temple (They ARE temple guards after all!). Originally I had them limited to 0-1 per army... But I decided that with the limitations of number on the secondary formations it wouldn't be that big a deal. That way you can also take 3 formations of them to fill a Floating Temple with elite butt-kicking lizard-warriors!

Sorry I missed renaming the bikers. Thought I had.
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consectari
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:31 pm 
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That explaniation makes sense.  Any way to incorporate those limitations into their stats or just add as description?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:22 pm 
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I was figuring it'd be added as fluff. I picture the Temple Guards being sortof like Space Marine Terminators. They don't play purely defensive roles in the army. But them being on the field means the battle is a very important one to the army from a fluff-perspective. They're something the Lizardmen don't like to risk, and rarely  take to the field unless absolutely needed, or escorting someone of great importance. Typically the reason you'd take them is to field a Supreme Commander (Since only they and your Flying Temple can carry one).
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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:51 am 
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I haven't had much time to review the list any further.  I did send it to a friend with a lot more E:A experience than me.  I'm hoping he will have some valuable input.

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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Unfortunately, the only feedback I got from my friend was that it looked good and needed playtesting.  I've asked him to review it closer and offer specific criticisms.  

As much as I'd like to believe it's good for testing as is, it seems a little unlikely it wouldn't need fine tuning.

Any ideas on where to go from here?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:28 pm 
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I think it could go in for testing. The stats I think I did a reasonable job on... It's the costs which are likely to need review. That and I'm a little worried about just how durable the combination of Regenerate and Battlescreens make things like the Flying Temple (I may have to dump it down to 6 DC perhaps) but a 1000 points it hopefully won't be TOO good.
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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:37 pm 
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If you think it is that close to being ready, I would suggest putting it up as  a new thread and see if we can get some comments.  

I'm sure it would be a little while before anyone could playtest it anyway.

It your work though and your call.  I don't consider myself experienced enough to make the judgement.

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Vermis
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:50 pm 
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(Vermis @ Aug. 01 2006,21:59)
QUOTE
Looks fine to me at first glance, though I'm no expert. ?Mostly some names to sort out, but I suppose that's my job.

That's been bugging me since I posted it.  I'd like to add that I appreciate the work, Ilushia, and I trust your judgement on these matters.
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 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:59 pm 
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Vermis:    I'd like to add that I appreciate the work, Ilushia, and I trust your judgement on these matters


Just in case I've been unclear, I too would like to express my appreciation.  Ilushia, you've put a lot into this list.  The list you put up looks like a great start.

It's just that from the heavy debate over even "official" army lists, it's obvious this is not an exact science and I'm eager to get outside opinions.

Thank you Ilushia, Vermis, orangesm, Yuber Okami, Dafrca, L4, and others who have put up comments here.  I'm still having a great time with this project.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:44 pm 
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It's never an exact science. Especially not in an open-source project like this. Everyone has their own vision of where the army lists should be good. And it's tough to get more then 2-3 people to agree on such things significant amounts of the time. I've done my best to produce a list which is both flexible and entertaining to play. The lack of major unit upgrades may be a bit of an issue, but I don't think it will be... I may also need to adjust the points-value of the Slann Mage-Priest due to their power. But considering that they usually are mounted on a 'shooty' formation I'm hoping it'll be OK.

If you guys have any questions about the list feel free to let me know. I put some forethought into most of the units, so I will (hopefully) have something resembling a coherent answer for any questions.
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Vermis
 Post subject: E:A  Rise of the Dracon
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:02 pm 
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Again, nothing off the top of my head.

Something that's partly off the top of my head: a few names.  Most of these haven't been changed from what we've been using.

Skimming Slann - Xlan Great Mage (as per RT background posted by Yuber)

Upgrade Slann - Xlan Mage Chief (again, RT)

Saurus commander - Oldblood

Saurus light infantry - Saurus Braves.  'Cuetzpalin' is lizard in Nahuatl, but it doesn't roll off my tongue easily.

Saurus heavy infantry - Saurus Scar-veterans, alternately 'cipactl' (Nahuatl - crocodile)

Saurus jump-pack troops - Saurus dactl, hecatl (Nahuatl - ehecatl = wind)

Saurus Temple Guard - no change.  Otherwise, I'm stumped.

Skinks - no change

Chameleons - no change

(NB - instead of trying for faux aztec/'saurian' names for infantry, d'you think some latin or latinesque names would work?  That's how most lizardmen names are already, anyway)

CC walker - Kroxigor

Shooty walker - 'Salamander' would fit this very well, but the name's already in use in the 40K background.  Alternates might be: hellbender, triturus, drake, firedrake.

Battle walker - Carnosaur

Support walker - Stegadon

Heavy skimmer - Arcanodon

AA skimmer - Toxote

Missile skimmer - I don't know why, but jaguars suggest themselves.  Something to do with the twin missile pods and claws, or something.  Could we add some syllable to Onca?  Or use Panthera, or even jaguar itself?

Can't apologise enough.  It's late and my mind is wandering.

On with the show.

Teleporter skimmer - stumped.  Siclidon?  After cichlids, for their mouthbrooding habits (i.e. transporting little fish about).

Light skimmer - Naja?

Flying temple - pfff.  Anything you like.  Pyramid, Great Pyramid, War Pyramid, Temple, Great Temple, etc. etc.  Temple is teopan in Nahuatl and tlax in 'saurian'.  Either of those strike a chord?

Drop ship - I think terradon should be shifted to this, and use...

Transport aircraft - quetzl

and...

Attack aircraft - coatl

...for those two.

Cold One riders - Cold one cavalry?  Frigus cavalry?  Gelidus cavalry?

That's it.  Feel free to shoot them down.  I think some of them deserve it.
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