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Marauder - where has it gone?
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:26 am 
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I agree, but then I have some big problems with the nature of the AMTL list anyway (Especially in the way that no provision was made for making the titans compatible with other Imperial armylists).

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redsimon
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:42 am 
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What do you mean with "compatible"? I think the plan was to allow some Titan weapon configurations for the other lists and leave AMTL Titans as it is?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:45 am 
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I've always preferred Titan lists that were balanced for both environments... still, that's an entirely seperate beef. :)

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:06 am 
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The Marauder Destroyer is able to carry bombs, but half that of the standard Marauder Bomber (IA:1).  

So if the Marauder Destroyer has BP2 then the Bomber would have BP3 or BP4.  If the Destroyer has BP2 a flight of 2 is effective with 2 Templates and AP4+/AT5+. The only change with a BP3 on the Bomber is the addition of a Blast Marker.  So a BP4 makes the choice significant.

Going the other direction, results in the Destroyer flight having a single template at AP5+/AT6+. This keeps the standard Marauder at BP2 each, but part of the issue is that the Marauder is not as capable as we think it should be.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:18 am 
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I'd be okay with the Marauder Destroyer having BP1 in addition to its other weapon systems.

It'd make it more expensive than it is currently of course.

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:28 am 
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The problem with reducing having the Destroyer, the Marauder feels under powered with only 2BP.  

In my book, a single Marauder should be as effective as 3 Basilisk.  To hit its target the Marauder actually has to expose itself to enemy fire, while the Artillery Battery can sit at a fair distance and engage the same target. Yes this seems to argue that players should just take the Artillery over the Aircraft, but list like the Elysians or Marines could make use of it.

Previous Discussion on Marauder.

Well right now 4 Maruaders (2xBP4 4 Templates AP4+/AT5+ 600 points) is less than the cost of an Artillery Company (9BP 3 Templates AP4+/AT5+ 650 points ).

So BP2 is alright, if the Marauder was more survivable.  The Artillery Company is the better choice because it is more survivable sitting at 120cm. It can even lose a vehicle and not have its effectiveness descreased.
The Maruader has to get within 15cm to make its attack. Increasing the BP is an option, but the benefit of going to BP3 is an extra BM, not increased survivablity. So making it either DC2 Armour 5+ or Reinforced Armour would probably be best.

Marauder Destroyer not based on current Marauder frame - has Arm 6+ (or 5+ in AMTL) and DC2 - are we going to give this to the Marauder Bomber?




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tneva82
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:10 pm 
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(orangesm @ Dec. 13 2006,01:28)
QUOTE
To hit its target the Marauder actually has to expose itself to enemy fire,

While artirelly is CONSTANTLY exposed to enemy retaliation...

I don't remember game where my opponent HASN'T been able to frag my artirelly if he wants to. Of course only 6'x4' board to play in might have something to do with it...

OTOH I have had games where my marauders have been able to avoid enemy flak entirely. It cannot be everywhere all the time.

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Charad
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:45 pm 
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There are many ways to use them..
Very often there are chance no AA are firing them..

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:58 pm 
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So would you take the Marauder over Artillery?

I have recently made the decision to use Airpower over Artillery and supporting AA in my 3000 pt Steel Legion list. Reason is to when I have the opportunity to play, to use the Imperial Navy assets.  For fluff reasons, Self Propelled Artillery is not part of the Battlegroup - that simple.




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Charad
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:57 pm 
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It depends, marauders pack very good firepower and against nids I would have them for sure. :)
And in other situations I would take first some artillery and then some marauders.

If they were DC 2 and 5+ save, then you can just fly through many AA units and always be able to hit home. Then they are just too easy..

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orangesm
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:42 pm 
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In a tournement list which would you take?
It sounds like you would take the Artillery first.

I actually prefer DC2 6+ as the rule - it can take as much damage as a Thunderhawk, it just does not have the Armor to protect it.

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Charad
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:18 am 
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IG just have best artillery in epic. Even marauders are good they have even better competitors. DC 2 and 6+ sound still worth testing. But maybe they became too close with thawk and vampire, then you can fly with marauders over hydra battery and have no fear of they being taken down. (of course luck changes things) :)

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tneva82
 Post subject: Marauder - where has it gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:38 am 
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(orangesm @ Dec. 31 2006,16:58)
QUOTE
So would you take the Marauder over Artillery?

Some games yes, some games no. I don't stick to one list for any particular length of time. I don't see them as big point waste though. They have their strenghts(not having to worry about teleporting turn 1 let's kill 'em stunt for one thing...I hate it when I lose my artirelly before it gets even to shoot. Counter artirelly fire is also annoying) and they have their weakness(which unit doesn't?).

By varying between artirelly and airforce(or both) I can keep my opponents on their toes. Keeps them honest as they can't tailor their army lists against my army list  :laugh:

Only problem I have with them is that the FW marauders are...Well tough to transport. But price you pay for having bloody lot better models than the SG versions  :laugh:

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