Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

v10 Playtest is out

 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

Point taken.

While I peruse the Epic A lists and seldom post, I am sometimes tempted in commenting and recommending reading over some of the netepic books for solutions to some problems. The debate of the Tyranid list is a case in point. I think they would benefit in the solution we gave the original rules shortcoming and perhaps tailor them to solve the current ones.

I dont do so beucase perhaps it would be interpreted the wrong way. On some forums thats all too easy... :;):

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
Quote (dafrca @ 08 2004 Oct.,09:56)
Netepic has the advantage, in my opinion, of many people who combined have a lot of experience. With EA there is Jervis and a few old timers, then the bulk are newer players.

Not only experience with Epic, but wargaming experience in general.  Many just getting into EA havent the experience some of us have had with board wargames and other miniatures games because of the rise of PC and XBox etc.

_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:28 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules. ?We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board. ?A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire. ?So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant. ?Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules).  Just the way we do it ! ?:;):

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
Quote (Tas @ 07 2004 Oct.,19:25)
Quote (dafrca @ 08 2004 Oct.,09:56)
Netepic has the advantage, in my opinion, of many people who combined have a lot of experience. With EA there is Jervis and a few old timers, then the bulk are newer players.

Not only experience with Epic, but wargaming experience in general. ?Many just getting into EA havent the experience some of us have had with board wargames and other miniatures games because of the rise of PC and XBox etc.

Good point. Many of the GW follower's experiance with "wargames" is limited to 40k. There is little tactics in reality in 40k that they often do not know how to handle a game that does not have a "Herohammer" feel to it.

Note, I am not trying to slam them, I too had to start somewhere. :cool:

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:18 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
IMO, there are NO tactics in 40K with their current and past (silly) rules !!!  :;):

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:59 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Oct.,04:28)
We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules. ?We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board. ?A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire. ?So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant. ?Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules). ?Just the way we do it ! ?:;):

So you give unlimited LOS to popped up skimmers same as the current EA rules?

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:11 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7925
Location: New Zealand
Quote (Freshmetal @ 07 2004 Oct.,23:27)
Hi,

I had a read through the last couple of pages of the thread and must say that I am in agreement with Jervis on the subject of abstract levels for terrain. Adding complex (and rather unnecessary) rules like that will slow down the gameplay, and no doubt cause more problems than they solve. I can see why people have suggested the 'level' rule, but I don't like it's "baggage".

I have no problem with using the '15cm' rule, as it represents a skimmer 'popping-up' (as it's supposed to, rather than flying (as some people fail to differenciate)), and rising above the terrain directly in front of it to spray fire onto enemy units just on the other side. If you want units that can attack anything on the board, use aircraft or artillery, that's their role, not that of skimmers. The 15cm rule is, in my opinion, easy to follow and makes better sense than some suggestions.



Oh well, I have faith in JJ to make a suitable decision over the matter, as he seems to be really against adding complex rules.

Cheers,
Freshmetal

Agreed  :D

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:16 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland
Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Oct.,04:28)
We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules.  We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board.  A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire.  So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant.  Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules).  Just the way we do it !  :;):

Interesting. In the (VERY slowly progressing) Hammer Head (Epic -> MSH conversion) I decided to treat Skimmers just like that: use the MSH helicopter rules nearly as is.

Now what was it they say about great minds and how they think...?  }:)  :laugh:

_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
Quote (Legion 4 @ 07 2004 Oct.,21:18)
IMO, there are NO tactics in 40K with their current and past (silly) rules !!! ?:;):

Not to be argumentative, but there is at least one tactic.

Line up with your most powerful leader in front, charge the enemy, fight until they or you are dead.

It is a tactic, not a good one, nor a sane one, but it is a tactic. ?:p ? ?:laugh:

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:07 pm
Posts: 489
Hi,

Was thinking about this a bit more last night, trying to think of which method of play would be both representative of the current E:A rules and remain flowing gameplay-wise. Here are my musings, I don't want to start any arguments or discussions over specifics, I just wanted to put the method I was considering into writing. Enjoy:


* Pop-up attacks are exactly that, they are not flying attacks. The skimmer unit pops-up, fires, and drops back to ground level all within the period of one turn. ie: it must pop up every turn if it wants to fire over the terrain, it cannot "float" hundreds of feet up in the air. (although some skimmers represent helicopters which should be able to do so; to help game flow, all skimmers are regarded as ground-level "hover-ers".)

* A pop-up attack is a special action that can be chosen in the action phase. (ie: rather than an advance, engage, etc.) Units popping-up must therefore take an action test and are affected by the -1 for retaining initiative, etc as per normal.

* Units that pop-up don't receive a sustained-fire bonus for remaining still, the pop-up advantage cancels it out.

* Units that pop-up trigger Overwatching enemy units the moment they pop-up. Resolve overwatch fire before resolving fire from the unit popping-up.


* Shooting:

The shooting player draws a line from his up-popping unit to the intended target (shortest line possible between the two formations). The shooter may then fire along that line disregarding any terrain that starts within 15cm of his position along this line. Therefore any terrain that is between the two units that doesn't start within 15cm of the shooter is treated as normal (NO MATTER HOW TALL IT IS).

EXAMPLE: An infantry formation stood partially in cover of a low ridge is targetted by a skimmer unit 30 cms away, however the skimmer is directly behind a building. The attacking player announces a pop-up attack and measures the range from his position to that of the infantry formation. He is within range and can therefore fire.

As the building is within 15cm of the skimmer making the pop-up move (and directly between the two formations), the skimmer may disregard it (and it's LOS-blocking properties) to fire at the infantry freely. (It would NOT matter how close either formation was to the terrain piece being popped-over, as long as the firing unit is within 15cm. This will avoid the problem of out-of-scale terrain and "terrain shadows", etc. May not be realistic, but is quick, easy and keeps the game flowing.)

However, the ridge that is partially covering the infantry unit begins 25 cm away from the skimmer. Therefore, even though the ridge is physically shorter than the building being popped-up over, the infantry still receive the cover save it would normally. (Unless the skimmer chooses to only target those troops not in partial cover.)

* If the skimmer rules are to remain fluid and easy to follow, you MUST consider terrain, etc in a slightly abstract manner. Putting too much detail into the physical dimensions of shooting will simply slow down play and annoy people. If a complex rule is introduced, I can see people using a house-rule in it's place. This should be the other way around. A simple rule such as this should be used, and anyone who wants a "technically-correct" version can use their own house rules (as with the current E:A rules). This would also keep tournament games flowing to retain their time limit. Although I don't play tourney rules most of the time, I know a lot of people do, and these rules help them.

* These rules remove not only the problems inherent with "terrain shadows" and varying scale terrain (including flat terrain), but also remove the need for "pop-up" markers.

*I see pop-up attacks as a tactical decision rather than a "sit behind a wall and fire from safety turn after turn" thing. Pop-up attacks need to be planned and considered just like every other move, and so should have some disadvantages to mirror it's advantages.

-----
These are just my musings from last night, so don't read too much into it. I simply wanted to explain how I think it should work (more for my own benefit than others :p ), and was wondering how others would 'like' to see it done.

Cheers,
Freshmetal

_________________
Blastmarker.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
Hi!

In netepic we give them 30cm striaght up, but terrain does block LOS. Whatver the skimmer sees at that hieght it can target and what it cant, it cant fire at. Units eligible for snap fire (overwatch) can hit them before they fire or disappear.

In that sense its very much like what Freshmetal has said. This has been in place for netepic for 7 years. Highly playtested, rock solid rule.

Primarch

_________________
Primarch


The Primarchload
Magnetized Titans Tutorial
Net Epic Gold
Heresy Rules


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
Quote (primarch @ 08 2004 Oct.,07:01)
Hi!

In netepic we give them 30cm striaght up, but terrain does block LOS. Whatver the skimmer sees at that hieght it can target and what it cant, it cant fire at. Units eligible for snap fire (overwatch) can hit them before they fire or disappear.

In that sense its very much like what Freshmetal has said. This has been in place for netepic for 7 years. Highly playtested, rock solid rule.

Primarch

Sounds like a simple and doable solution.  :)

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: v10 Playtest is out
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:37 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
Yes Mojarn, you are correct sir ! :laugh:   Daf, same goes for you, it is a "tactic" ... of some sort ! :;):     As far as Pop-ups, the way we do it is once the unit is activated, it pops up, shoots and before it goes back down, one enemy unit in range, on FF may "Snap Fire" ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net