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E:A Rise of the Dracon

orangesm

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:32 am

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What units do you think would be in the Serveants of the Old Ones list?

Basing the core of the army of the Lizardman list from WFB would give Light and Heavy Infantry and Cavalry (Skinks & Saurus and those mounted on Cold Ones), possibly FF MW (Salamanders), and Light Vehicles or Transports (Stegadon).

I like the idea of having Jakero in the force some how, possibly in WE or Aerospace Formations.

The hole to be filled if the above fill the list would be armor or vehivles in general. We would need a good idea of the background of what exactly an Old Ones force would have in it. I would say that no Old Ones should be in the list, but have various Generations of Slann as different level Commanders with 2nd Gen Slann being Superme Commanders.

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:35 am

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I'm glad to see people finding this topic in the Labyrinth of the new/old forum! It's good to see discussion continues on.

I've found some limited background info on the Lizzies and it seems that different spawnings may be born with different abilities. It indicates their genetics may be designed to anticipate an upcoming threat.

This means that even though there are only Skinks, Saurus, & Kroxigor, there could be more than just the 3 basic infantry types.

They still have to stick to the basic physical stats and intelligence levels, but could have different abilities.

This could mean that Skinks that aren't "Chameleon Skinks" who have First Strike, Infiltrators, Scouts could wear light armor and still have an armor save. Not to mention that WFB Lizardmen are supposed to have very tough skin (though I don't know what their armor stat might be until I get the codex).

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:46 am

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(orangesm @ Jul. 16 2006,00:32)

QUOTE

I like the idea of having Jakero in the force some how, possibly in WE or Aerospace Formations.

I would say that no Old Ones should be in the list, but have various Generations of Slann as different level Commanders with 2nd Gen Slann being Superme Commanders.

Since I wanted to take the suggestion of having ground vehicles that were developed by the Dracon and a few but more powerful grav vehicles that were left by the Old Ones, perhaps the gravs could be operated and maintained by the Jakero.

The Lexicanum site states that in the current 40k fluff the Slann and the Old Ones are the same race and that they were wiped out. I don't know how reliable it's information is, though.

If it is correct, any Slann or Old Ones would be against fluff. Not that I am unwilling to budge on fluff related subjects. Just pointing it out.

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:54 am

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(orangesm @ Jul. 16 2006,00:32)

QUOTE

Basing the core of the army of the Lizardman list from WFB would give Light and Heavy Infantry and Cavalry (Skinks & Saurus and those mounted on Cold Ones),

I did want to keep some animal mounted cavalry.

I see the Skinks as kind of the Brains of the outfit and being on par with humans. This would lead me to parallel this army to the IG (only in level of advancement)and the IG still use steed animals.

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Ilushia

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:14 am

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Aww... No lizard bikers? Ah well. For the mounted units I'd imagine they'd reserve that for the larger and more robust species. Mounted on even larger quadrupedal beasts? Not sure though. I've never really understood why the IG have Rough Riders instead of Bikers (Other then that the folks writing at GW seem to like that weird mix of fantasy and sci-fi). The older editions of 40K had IG riding bikes in them. And it'd be kinda neat to see lizards on bikes.

On the subject of tanks: This could be fielded a number of different ways. You could take the idea of mounted animals even farther, ala the Feral Ork lists. Or you could do 'proper' vehicles (Seems more likely if they have grav-vehihcles. Even grav-vehicles they don't really understand I'd imagine they could produce some kind of normal tank). The Humans from DRM have some wonderful tanks. I especially like the twin-gatling-gun jeep-thing. That'd make a neat Light Vehicle scout-kinda thing.

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Legion 4

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:14 am

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AS soon as I find some 6mm Planet of the Ape figs !!!

I'll see what I can do ... they could even be allies of the Lizzies ! Like the Tau & Kroot ! :;):

Hey Con did you get the e-mail I sent with the GZG stuff you asked about ?! Sorry to go OT !

ops:

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:27 am

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I know Rough Riders are kind of weird, but they're the kind of weird I like. ?I do use some IG Bikes in my army, just because I like variety.

I don't want the Dracon to go overboard on animals like Feral Orks, just have some cavalry to keep a bit of the old Lizardman flavor. ?The DRM Rakat(sp?) Riders would work perfectly in this role. ?(the DRM Krays have Grav tanks and animal steeds! ?Talk about weird but cool combinations!)

I did mention earlier that I thought the DRM pax/human vehicles would work well for the vehicles the Dracon themselves designed. ?

The Kray grav vehicles would be perfect as the limited number of advanced vehicles the Old Ones left behind.

I may have forgotten to transfer it over, but in the temp. forum, I suggested the Old Ones vehicles be self repairing, but having them operated and maintained by Jakero would work as well. ?

If Jakero are used, I would prefer it be in a behind the scenes role, like vehicle operators.

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:50 am

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(Ilushia @ Jul. 16 2006,01:14)

QUOTE

Aww... No lizard bikers?

I personally have no problem with this concept, after all, every other race gets one. Just don't ask me to make the models! :laugh:

In reality, at 6mm, it's awfully hard to tell what's a lizard and whats a SM/guard/Ork. ?Orks esp. might work.

Since it does't appear that DRM Krays have tails, riding a bike should not present a problem.

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:17 am

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You know, I wouldn't even need figs to represent Chameleon skinks. Just a nice scenic base. :laugh:

(Boy, it's way too late!)

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Ilushia

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:49 am

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One of the people I used to know did that with Lictors for a long long time. It was just a nice scenic base, with a couple of foot-prints from the model right in the middle of it. And the word 'Lictor' written along the base of the model so the enemy could tell what it was! It was a create little base, and felt totally appropriate. :laugh:

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dafrca

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:08 am

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(consectari @ Jul. 15 2006,23:17)

QUOTE

You know, I wouldn't even need figs to represent Chameleon skinks. ?Just a nice scenic base. :laugh:

(Boy, it's way too late!)

Wonderful Idea

(It is 12:08 here

)

dafrca

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Vermis

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:00 pm

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(consectari @ Jul. 16 2006,02:47)

QUOTE

Vermis again (he's been a major help on this!):

Oh. ?Gosh. ?Ta. :blush:

Way to deligate!

dafrca

ILUSHIA: Remember, doubling your assault-move for Infiltrate doesn't require you to get into Base to Base contact to do!

I know, I know. ?I certainly wasn't complaining about that. :;):

ILUSHIA: Ask the people who use Warp Spiders sometime how effective Infiltrate and Fire-Fight First-Strike can be. It's a very scary combination.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

ORANGESM: What units do you think would be in the Serveants of the Old Ones list?

I've had a couple of (very) idle thoughts about that. ?Saurus and skinks, certainly. ?And chameleon skinks. ?Perhaps 'Temple Guard' crack troops that accompany any slann or oldbloods (DRM Ketzali Command and Karrock spring to mind).
Kroxigor? ?Or Kroxigor class walkers? :;):

Cold One/Feathercloak class APC/IFV?
Carnosaur class MBT.
Stegadon class... something. ?SPG?
DRM Arkalest = rare Arcanodon class heavy tank. :;):

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Vermis

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:02 pm

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CON: They still have to stick to the basic physical stats and intelligence levels, but could have different abilities.

But then there's the old adage: would it make a difference at 6mm scale? ?In a game, spawnings usually give small benefits, like +1 armour, +1 movement, etc.
Mind you, it's an adage I'm not always fond of, myself.

CON: The Lexicanum site states that in the current 40k fluff the Slann and the Old Ones are the same race and that they were wiped out. ?I don't know how reliable it's information is, though. ?

If it is correct, any Slann or Old Ones would be against fluff. ?Not that I am unwilling to budge on fluff related subjects. ?Just pointing it out.

Bah.
As I mentioned in passing, on the temp forums: in the background pages on alien threats, the 4th ed. 40K book has a John Blanche drawing of a reptilian creature. ?The banner at the bottom of the drawing says 'Slanni'. ?I assume it's a creature that the Imperium has recently encountered. :;):

ILUSHIA: On the subject of tanks: This could be fielded a number of different ways. You could take the idea of mounted animals even farther, ala the Feral Ork lists.
I'm cool on steeds, but I don't fancy the idea of giving them a version of squiggoths, or actual FB stegadons.

CON: If Jakero are used, I would prefer it be in a behind the scenes role, like vehicle operators.
Nice touch. ?I think it helps to pull them away from a tit-for-tat translation of FB (like wot I did, up there

), and place them in the 40K mythos.

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consectari

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:39 pm

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Perhaps the Kroxigor could be their version of Terminator or Dreadnaught.

Cold One/Feathercloak class APC/IFV?
Carnosaur class MBT.
Stegadon class... something. SPG?
DRM Arkalest = rare Arcanodon class heavy tank

All excellent suggestions. Though the Stegadon might make a good seige tank, say with a nice horn shaped ram?

In a game, spawnings usually give small benefits, like +1 armour, +1 movement, etc.

Since we are making the leap from WFB to E:A and it won't be a direct translation, I thought that the different spawnings would just represent the difference between different types of infantry.

One spawn is standard Saurus, another spawn is special forces, etc.

Bah.
the 4th ed. 40K book has a reptilian creature, at the bottom of the drawing says 'Slanni'. I assume it's a creature that the Imperium has recently encountered

I'm down with that. Maybe we're using the wrong name.

I'm cool on steeds, but I don't fancy the idea of giving them a version of squiggoths, or actual FB stegadons

On the same page. Rough Rider type steeds only. DRM Rakkat Riders or if that doesn't thrill you, how about something Raptor like converted from Slaanesh steed riders maybe? Maybe just one set of stats and use whichever model you want.

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Vermis

Post subject: E:A Rise of the Dracon

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:44 pm

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(Vermis @ Jul. 16 2006,12:02)

QUOTE

In a game, spawnings usually give small benefits, like +1 armour, +1 movement, etc.

I was wrong. ?No +1 movement spawning, and a couple look useful. ?I still don't know if they should be included, though.

A couple of initial thoughts on some infantry. ?My best hope is that that someone laughs in derision and feels obliged to come up with something better.

Slann

Type ? ? ? ? ? ?Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Character ? ? 15cm ? ? ? ?n/a ? ? ? ? n/a ? ?n/a

Weapon ? ? ? ? ?Range ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Notes
Warp Stream ?(15cm) ? ?Small Arms ? ? ?MW, Disrupt, Extra Attacks (+2)

Notes: Fearless, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save, Supreme Commander.

(This is assuming he's not a big floating toad, but something more akin to the foot soldiers. ?But if a floating toad is prefered, I think Skimmer could be added, and Warp Stream given a ranged ability like a Landspeeder's multimelta.
The +2 attacks reflects the fact that he'd have the Temple Guard's FF stat. ?You'd think a Slann could aim. ?Could be fixed and reduced to +1 by making him a unit ?with FF 5+ or 4+ instead of an obligatory upgrade.
Warp Stream is a bad effort at naming [and representing] a strong psychic ability. ?I'd also like him to have some sort of subtle effect on the entire army/battle, like I think Farseers can do. ?I still need to actually read the Eldar list... :blush:

Supreme Comm. and Inv. Save are a given, I think. ?Inspiring is what he does to the Guard and the enemy. ?I don't know if Fearless is needed, if he's going to join a TG stand anyway)

Temple Guard

Type ? ? ? ? ? ?Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Infantry ? ? ? ?15cm ? ? ? ?5+ ? ? ? ? ?4+ ? ? 6+

Weapon ? ? ? Range ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Notes
Glaive ? ? (base contact) ? assault weapon ? ?Extra attacks (+1)
Light rifles ? (15cm) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?small arms ? ? ? ? -

Notes: Fearless

(The term 'light rifles' is based on what the DRM Kray guards seem to have. ?FF 6+ might seem too weak for that, but I don't think they should be too shooty - being specialist and partly ceremonial and all that. ?Fearless represents their unwavering devotion to the Slann's protection - they're stubborn in FB, when accompanying a Slann)

Oldblood

Type ? ? ? ? ? ?Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Character ? ? ?n/a ? ? ? ? ?n/a ? ? ? ? n/a ? ?n/a

Weapon ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Range ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Notes
Ancient blade ? (base contact) ? assault weapon ? ?MW, Extra attacks (+1)

Notes: Fearless, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save

(Nope, not a commander or leader. ?Back when the current FB lizardmen were released, I remember reading the designer's notes in White Dwarf [yes, sometimes it has more than adverts]. ?Senior Saurus don't have higher leadership, because Saurus are spawned ready, willing and very able. ?The main change when they age is that they become so hard they make nails look like pudding. ?I hope the noted abilities represent that.)

Saurus

Type ? ? ? ? Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Infantry ? ? 15cm ? ? ? ?5+ ? ? ? ? ?4+ ? ? 5+

Weapon ? ? ? ? ?Range ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Notes
CCW ? ? ? ? ?(base contact) ? assault weapons ? ? ? -
Handguns ? ? ? (15cm) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?small arms ? ? ? ? ? -
Sunfire gun ? ? ?30cm ? ? ? ? ? ? ? AP5+/AT6+ ? ? ? ? -

(Nothing too spectacular, but these are the grunts. ?The daffy name of the gun comes from my continually noticing references to Chotec - old one/god of the sun - in descriptions of various weapons, items and abilities in the lizardmen book.)

Skinks

Type ? ? ? ? Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Infantry ? ? 20cm ? ? ? ? 6+ ? ? ? ? 6+ ? ? 4+

Weapon ? ? ? ? ?Range ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? Notes
Javelin rifles ? ?(15cm) ? small arms ? ? ?-

Notes: Scouts

(Javelin rifles sounded better than blowpipe rifles. ?Also, I think Armour - and FF5+ might be better for these.
They have a move of 20cm because they can fairly scuttle along in FB, and they're not especially loaded down here. ?But I have a feeling that won't be popular. ?A shorter move on the chameleons could represent greater care and stealth.
Character upgrade - Skink Chief with Leader and +1 FF attack sound okay?)

Chameleon Skinks

Type ? ? ? ? Speed ? ? Armour ? ? CC ? ? FF
Infantry ? ? 15cm ? ? ? ? 5+ ? ? ? ? 6+ ? ? 4+

Weapon ? ? ? ? ?Range ? ? ? ? ?FP ? ? ? ? Notes
Javelin rifles ? ?(15cm) ? small arms ? First Strike
Long Rifles ? ? ? 30cm ? ? ? ? AP5+ ? ? ? -

Notes: Infiltrators, Scouts, Sniper

(Ilushia: I don't know if this matters much, but Sniper is a unit ability, and First strike is a weapon ability. ?I just switched 'em around.
Talking about it, the fact that First Strike is not a unit ability is the reason I gave it to Chameleon guns and not regular Skinks. ?Although - does anyone have any objections if regular Skinks get it too?
Also, does Sniper affect FF attacks...?)

I think I'm done.

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E:A Rise of the Dracon

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