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Enabling GW

 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:02 pm 
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How is that the same?


Because you're proselytizing on web forums on behalf of a games company that isn't paying you any money or supporting you in any manner*?

In addition, you have already (or at the least have an inention to**) write extra rules for it?

It seems like it's a somewhat similar situation to me.


* Or perhaps they are supporting you... I've no idea if the SciFi Commander rules you've been playesting are opensource or not.

** Your blog says that you want to write a Chaos army list for SciFi Commander... presumably this list would be intended to work with GW's 6mm Chaos models?

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:03 pm 
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So GW doesn't support epic. So what? It's still a good game and still fun to play.

In reality, what does "support" mean? It means produce models, and if we all stop buying epic models they'll cancel the ones they do produce now. That would be utterly self defeating.

You know what, we enjoy developing the lists ourselves. We enjoy customising the game, or we simply wouldn't do it. It's part of the fun.

I enjoy epic as a game, and I'm not going to stop playing it just because you're uppitty about not getting enough "support".





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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:44 pm 
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Promoting Epic online currently does nothing but benefit GW. People still need to buy what limited figs GW sells to build to play this game and if GW can sell figs without doing anything then there is no need for them to ramp up support.

So every person that E&C, Hena or Cybershadow help on Warseer or other forums to get into Epic is more sales for GW that it did nothing to earn. And the more this happens the more it reinforces to the management at GW that they can get free Epic sales off the back of the community.

I think that if people want to change this situation they need to put GW in a position where it has to do its own work to support Epic instead of relying on the community to do it for them.

If gamers are fine with this situation then that is there right but that also means that you aren't in any position to complain about GW's abysmal support for this game.

Instead of writing E:A rules for Tau or Minervans why not write DRM stats and army lists for Epic armies or when SFC comes out write stats for that system?

Or pursue that E:A rewrite idea and then build new armies for that game instead?

As I have said before, why not use the communities time and energy to support people who support the community instead of supporting a company that doesn't?

But posting topics about how someone can build Plague Towers from plastic models from a Japanese anime movie should really point out to people just how bad the situation is and it will not get better if the community doesn't do something.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:51 pm 
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(pixelgeek @ Apr. 27 2008,18:44)
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I think that if people want to change this situation they need to put GW in a position where it has to do its own work to support Epic instead of relying on the community to do it for them.

And as I said, if we stop working to make epic popular then GW will simply cancel the entire range.

They won't say "Hmm, epic sales have dropped so we should promote and support the game.", they'll say "epic sales have dropped. It's a dead weight, so lets cancel it".

And once again, why should I have to play a different game just because this one isn't "supported"? I like the epic rules and background.

I play several games that have been entirely canceled and aren't supported in any way whatsoever. Should I stop playing them even though I enjoy them?

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:53 pm 
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They won't say "Hmm, epic sales have dropped so we should promote and support the game.", they'll say "epic sales have dropped. It's a dead weight, so lets cancel it"


Zombocom speaks the truth.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:58 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 27 2008,10:02)
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* Or perhaps they are supporting you... I've no idea if the SciFi Commander rules you've been playesting are opensource or not.

Well that is nice. If you don't agree with someone assume they are being paid to promote a product.

Welcome to the ignore list.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:00 pm 
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(zombocom @ Apr. 27 2008,10:51)
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And as I said, if we stop working to make epic popular then GW will simply cancel the entire range.

And that changes your situation how exactly?

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:03 pm 
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I like epic. That's my situation. I want to play epic, and I'm not going to be bullied into starting a new game just because you have an issue with GW.

I have no problem with supporting GW and keeping the epic range going, whether we get anything in return or not. We actually get quite a lot from them; a free ruleset, a very recent errata, a decent model range and their endorcement of our modifications to the system.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Welcome to the ignore list.


Hey, I'm just calling it as I see it... I didn't say you were getting paid, only that the company is giving you some preferential treatment (Or am I wrong in thinking that SciFi Commander is being developed through an invite-only playtesting group, of which you are an invited member?).

And that changes your situation how exactly?

Uh, we won't be able to buy Space Marine Land Raiders anymore.

Except for crappy ones on Ebay that have been painted three times and once melted slightly in the sun that is.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:06 pm 
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(zombocom @ Apr. 27 2008,10:51)
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And once again, why should I have to play a different game just because this one isn't "supported"? I like the epic rules and background.

And I have said that you are free to do so but, again, you aren't really in a position to complain about how you are treated.

If you like the status quo then fine.

I think I've said that more than once as well so if you like the way things are then keep on.

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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:08 pm 
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I've never complained about the situation.

Would I like more models? Sure, but it's not that big of a deal to me. I can convert pretty much anything I want, or buy from another manufacturer. It's certainly not enough to stop me playing.

The most important thing to me is a decent ruleset, and we have that.





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 Post subject: Enabling GW
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:22 pm 
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I think you will find that all the Specialist Games are at this point community based.  

My biggest answer to this whole thread is...its MY HOBBY!  I do not expect any return from any hobby other than some relaxation and some fun, hence the term hobby.  If I wanted more from it than that, I would be wanting a business of my own.  Without my support of my HOBBY, GW would cancel the minis, eliminating MY hobby.  There are alternative games out there, but like most historical games, no one else has the prescence in the market.  I can find Epic Gamers anywhere.  As for SciFi Commander and the others, I know no one else who plays them.  

GW's support comes from the fact that they created and continue expanding upon a universe they have created.  By getting new gamers into miniature wargaming through 40K, WFB and LOTR, a small % of those gamers will find Specialist Games and what those games have to offer.  The expanding universe allows us to take what we want from it and incorporate it into our own hobby.  

They also provide support by reveiwing each rules system at least once a year and making the changes "official".  One of the biggest complaints about GW is that the games are "obviously" not playtested enough, or the rules are crap, etc.  Yet the Epic community has developed/playtested most if not all of the new material for the game in the past few years.  So, there should be no complaints there.  If they are looking for more from GW, then it has crossed the line of their HOBBY.  Perhaps then they can join the others who are, for lack of a better term, angry at a company for shifting its assets into more profitable areas, and create there own games/minis.  

And lastly, they do still provide the minis to play the game.  If no one bought them, they would go away.  Again, the reason I support the game.  If the minis went away, I would cease playing within 12 months time and move on to another game which most importantly, has to have players and a community to support it.  

In the end, its my hobby and I enjoy having others to share it with.  I care less what GW does with it but to continue to give me the rules and the minis to play it.  

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