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Skimmer Experiament Rules...

 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 4:41 pm 
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I'm just going to wait ... I've got so much to do as it is and as time goes by G/W & F/W keep releasing more !   :o

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:18 pm 
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Hi!

I would really like to see new tarantulas and rapier done.

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:31 am 
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My buddy downloaded the Tau v.3, Feral Orks and DKoK today.  I look forward to the DKoK models. We know what some of them look like, but all will very Germanic it appears ... :D

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:31 pm 
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Has anyone here been following the debate about the Skimmer rules over on the Offical board?

Just curious, if you have, what do you think of this new effort?

dafrca

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:27 pm 
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Hi,

I had a read through the last couple of pages of the thread and must say that I am in agreement with Jervis on the subject of abstract levels for terrain. Adding complex (and rather unnecessary) rules like that will slow down the gameplay, and no doubt cause more problems than they solve. I can see why people have suggested the 'level' rule, but I don't like it's "baggage".

I have no problem with using the '15cm' rule, as it represents a skimmer 'popping-up' (as it's supposed to, rather than flying (as some people fail to differenciate)), and rising above the terrain directly in front of it to spray fire onto enemy units just on the other side. If you want units that can attack anything on the board, use aircraft or artillery, that's their role, not that of skimmers. The 15cm rule is, in my opinion, easy to follow and makes better sense than some suggestions.

As always with the SG forums, a lot of the people want a way to make their army better than the others, rather than finding a way of resolving problems that come up in games. Possibly because a lot of the discussion is about tournament situations rather than non-tourney games. I would've rather seen the issue discussed either when the rules initially came out, or after the Swordwind add-on is released, as it seems that this is more of an argument over Eldar (and their players who want advantages over other armies), rather than the skimmer ability that all armies use in some manner.

Oh well, I have faith in JJ to make a suitable decision over the matter, as he seems to be really against adding complex rules.

Cheers,
Freshmetal

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:37 pm 
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Hi!

We use a similar rule in netepic, although its higher (30cm I think).

I find it funny that a lot of Epic A discussions cover issues that netepic has dealt with years ago....

..just a thought..... :;): :D

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:56 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 07 2004 Oct.,15:37)
I find it funny that a lot of Epic A discussions cover issues that netepic has dealt with years ago....

..just a thought..... :;): :D

It does not surprise me. When you think about it. More then half of those who are doing the talking on the SG board are under 30. In fact, quite a few have said they were younger.

They have not been through the SM/Epic40k wars. They have not had the time to formulate the ideas nor do they have the past experiences that would show them the way.

Netepic has the advantage, in my opinion, of many people who combined have a lot of experience. With EA there is Jervis and a few old timers, then the bulk are newer players.

dafrca

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:12 am 
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Hi!

Point taken.

While I peruse the Epic A lists and seldom post, I am sometimes tempted in commenting and recommending reading over some of the netepic books for solutions to some problems. The debate of the Tyranid list is a case in point. I think they would benefit in the solution we gave the original rules shortcoming and perhaps tailor them to solve the current ones.

I dont do so beucase perhaps it would be interpreted the wrong way. On some forums thats all too easy... :;):

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:25 am 
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Quote (dafrca @ 08 2004 Oct.,09:56)
Netepic has the advantage, in my opinion, of many people who combined have a lot of experience. With EA there is Jervis and a few old timers, then the bulk are newer players.

Not only experience with Epic, but wargaming experience in general.  Many just getting into EA havent the experience some of us have had with board wargames and other miniatures games because of the rise of PC and XBox etc.

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:28 am 
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We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules. ?We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board. ?A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire. ?So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant. ?Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules).  Just the way we do it ! ?:;):

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:06 am 
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Quote (Tas @ 07 2004 Oct.,19:25)
Quote (dafrca @ 08 2004 Oct.,09:56)
Netepic has the advantage, in my opinion, of many people who combined have a lot of experience. With EA there is Jervis and a few old timers, then the bulk are newer players.

Not only experience with Epic, but wargaming experience in general. ?Many just getting into EA havent the experience some of us have had with board wargames and other miniatures games because of the rise of PC and XBox etc.

Good point. Many of the GW follower's experiance with "wargames" is limited to 40k. There is little tactics in reality in 40k that they often do not know how to handle a game that does not have a "Herohammer" feel to it.

Note, I am not trying to slam them, I too had to start somewhere. :cool:

dafrca

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:18 am 
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IMO, there are NO tactics in 40K with their current and past (silly) rules !!!  :;):

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:59 am 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Oct.,04:28)
We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules. ?We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board. ?A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire. ?So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant. ?Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules). ?Just the way we do it ! ?:;):

So you give unlimited LOS to popped up skimmers same as the current EA rules?

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:11 am 
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Quote (Freshmetal @ 07 2004 Oct.,23:27)
Hi,

I had a read through the last couple of pages of the thread and must say that I am in agreement with Jervis on the subject of abstract levels for terrain. Adding complex (and rather unnecessary) rules like that will slow down the gameplay, and no doubt cause more problems than they solve. I can see why people have suggested the 'level' rule, but I don't like it's "baggage".

I have no problem with using the '15cm' rule, as it represents a skimmer 'popping-up' (as it's supposed to, rather than flying (as some people fail to differenciate)), and rising above the terrain directly in front of it to spray fire onto enemy units just on the other side. If you want units that can attack anything on the board, use aircraft or artillery, that's their role, not that of skimmers. The 15cm rule is, in my opinion, easy to follow and makes better sense than some suggestions.



Oh well, I have faith in JJ to make a suitable decision over the matter, as he seems to be really against adding complex rules.

Cheers,
Freshmetal

Agreed  :D

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 Post subject: Skimmer Experiament Rules...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:16 am 
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Quote (Legion 4 @ 08 2004 Oct.,04:28)
We treat skimmers, based on the old SM2 rules.  We look at skimmers like modern helicopter gunships. We let them "pop-Up" over all terrain. Buildings being generally the highest piece of terrain on the board.  A chopper (skimmer) hovering just above the ground behind an AT/SM1/SM2/TL/E40K structure could easily pop-up and fire.  So the actual height of the pop-up is irrelevant.  Jump pack troops, can only jump over an obstacle no higher than 8cm (SM1 rules).  Just the way we do it !  :;):

Interesting. In the (VERY slowly progressing) Hammer Head (Epic -> MSH conversion) I decided to treat Skimmers just like that: use the MSH helicopter rules nearly as is.

Now what was it they say about great minds and how they think...?  }:)  :laugh:

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