I've occasionally wondered what the future might hold for the 40k setting as things go over into the 42nd millennium, with so many dire threats coming. GW writers have created so much events happening just before the turn of the millennium it's got a bit improbable, but the policy for their games has been not to move the timelines past a certain point.

This has changed for Warhammer though, as there's a new supplement coming out for Warhammer called 'The End Times' that advances the timeline there some way, with the continuing final chaos invasion and the return of the big bad Nagash (who created the undead and vampires) with huge destruction all across the world - demons slaughtering through familiar locations in the world, multiple named characters with models killed off (e.g. Bretonian King Louen Leoncouer) and the entire country of Kislev (which had a model range couple of editions ago) apparently completely wiped out. It is probably an attempt to boost fading interest in Warhammer and I'm curious to know more as an old fan of the setting.

It got me thinking: I wonder if they might do something like this for 40k at some point? Bring back the Emperor and Primarchs, ect. Previously I'd have said no, but with this happening in Warhammer maybe they will.

Incidentally this is the Nagash model, a big improvement on the comical old one. I'm no fan of GW the company but they do design some excellent models sometimes.

I don't think there is any need (yet) for 40k - ie it is still selling like hotcakes. Warhammer by all accounts is on it's knees an I think this is a last gasp to revive its popularity before the shareholders pull the plug due to falling sales.

However I suspect the "End of days" is more of a "business as usual." Ie nothing will really change much in the game beyond selling yet larger and more destructive (and expensive) kits. In some ways end of days is actually just pushing the wh world closer to the 40k setting - ie. teetering on oblivion 1 minute to midnight.

However I was discussing this with a friend the other day and there is a distinct feeling that both settings are getting increasingly stale with the insistence on sticking to only to 2 rule sets meaning both are straight jacketing the creativity. Without the freedom of bloodbowl/mordhime/necromunda/gorkamorka/Bfg etc regularly reimagining the setting and rules it's just a constant stale recycling of the same old same old or increasingly fringe oddities (jet sleds-wtf?) Even to the noobs which gw actively target it seems to be stale and they are increasingly switching to those manufacturers who have something fresh to develop.

Just out of interest, where's the evidence to suggest that Warhammer is 'on its knees'? I haven't seen any evidence to support such a claim, so if anyone has any informative links, I'd be interested in seeing them posted.

On the substance of the question, they could play around with the 40K background, but if they did I feel that it would be a temporary change. GW has indicated that it would change the background in the past, however, it has never really followed through on that suggestion. As a result, I am not convinced that they would make any substantial irreversible changes.

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I haven't got the links but there is a breakdown of US sales by game with WHFB not in the top 5 games

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No real surprise when you can buy the same army from Mantic at a fraction of the price ..

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No kidding. If GW does dry up and vanish, Mantic should profit mightily from that.

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Hi!

I saw this too.

WFB has fallen off the top 5.

Primarch

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I don't have specifics to link to, but there have been no end of articles on the interwebs (so it must be true) that whfb has been bleeding players and market share to warmahoards, mantic and (ironically) lotr for years. With hobbit being a flop The rumour was 8th ed was gws last ditch attempt to revamp the game before the shareholders voted to discontinue it specialist games style...

The more the internet says it's true then the less convinced I become . Anyway, if anyone does find the links at any stage, feel free to drop me a PM, as I would be interested.

Back onto the subject in question. It did occur to me that GW has been experimenting with the 40K timeline to a certain extent. I say this because of all the 30K stuff which has been produced in recent times. While this does not count as advancing the timeline in any way, it could be viewed as going into more detail of a different period of 40K's background.

All of that said, I'm not sure that this really gives us an indicator of GW's plans. What is more telling, for me, is that there was a miserly two year gap between sixth and seventh edition 40K, and, so far as I am aware, the background didn't change at all. More of the same thus seems the most likely option for some time to come.

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Warhammer has never done as well as 40k in sales. I could list anecdotes that I've witnessed that make me think the sales are dropping further. This is all supported by the vast availability of fantasy compatible miniatures versus 40k compatible miniatures, and the price differences in these other companies versus GW.

However the main this, is will this affect 40k? I personally think it is far less likely to affect 40k. This is in part due to the issues listed already, but also because a huge problem that warhammer players have been complaining about for a few editions is that nothing new is happening. I remember getting my skaven book, and I just ended up not reading the background since almost every story had been covered in the last book, and nothing interesting was happening. The only time the story seemed to change was to add models(demi-gryphs). This made people more frustrated, as it ended up being retcon after retcon.

Now in warhammer this is a big problem, because everything that happens can only happen on this one world, with specific regions and countries. 40k has so much room that they have not gone stale nearly as much, and they have more room to tell the story in because it is galaxy wide.

I love what's happened to Warhammer. I do, in a way, hope that it really is the end times of warhammer. I think it might work for 40k, but i don't think they'll do it if they can do something else instead.

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Warhammer could always expand and go subterrainian like journey to the centre of the earth. Fantasy is full of kingdoms under the earths surface. Would open up some interesting possibilities to refresh and expand the background and add some elements of the unknown.

Niels Klim – fantasy skulls edition! I demand an army of warrior chickens!

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Is it just me or is End Times actually about bringing Warhammer's setting closer in feel to 40k ? 40k has always existed with humanity clinging on to the tatters of a fallen empire - ie. The post The Horus Heresy. Perhaps they hope shaking of the slightly generic fantasy kingdoms of WH for a mordhiem-like world (throughout) will help define its character more easily and make it stand out from Tolkien et al ?

8th edition largely bombed for Warhammer Fantasy. It had great potential at first: the return of big infantry regiments as the primary cornerstones of the army, that could fight and win on their own. Magic that was more flexible and useful, though the "game ender" spells like Purple Sun were often decried.

However, there were problems. Cavalry struggled to find a role, there were several "game ender" spells that led to games being decided as much by the first one to get their "uber" spell off and eliminate the most powerful enemy formation.

Well, GW didn't really bother with that. They just started throwing monstrous cavalry and big monsters to everybody, and I think it really broke a lot of us from our desires to really play the game. It stopped being about manuever and concentration of force and whether your big monsters got lucky or not. I didn't like that.

I still love the core rules, and I think with a few modifications would help. But really, the old days of letting some line infantry take the hit, then engaging in the flank with cavalry stopped being useful. And once the manuever was gone... well, there went the game.