This is, of course, an AdMech list, so adding titans is more 'fluffy' than other forces.

Not every Forgeworld has the resources to host a titan legion, however. Some offensives may not require their use. Fom a game standpoint, allies are just that, allies. They cannot be counted upon, and any army that must take allies to be competative, or even effective, is deeply flawed. The first time that all the allied assets are tied up elsewhere, the army would be screwed.

I fully support the ability for a player to take titan allies and not pe penalized for it from a gameplay perspective. I think most would agree that the army should retain the flexibility to go to battle without those allies effectively, as well. Flexibility is what drives a successful EA list. That comes from internal balance, and the ability to have more than one unit perform a given role. Especially where allies are involved.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I thought I acknowledged the need for internal balance, but where I disagree is that I don't think in this particular list, that it should be a design goal to be able to do anything titans can do without titans. I can understand the rationale in a marine or IG list setting, but actually skitarii are supposed to be part of titan legions (at least that's how it work in Titanicus), they are not a different force structure, so while I understand we might put titans in the "allies" part of the list for list construction purpose (point spent limitation), I think the term "ally" is in fact misleading and actually wrong from a background oriented point of view.

Titan legion are not a separate force from the skitarii force, skitarii are infantry and tanks support that work as an integral part of a titan legion.


And in fact, I think the fluff actually IS that every FW indeed has a titan legion, at least it was so. Each FW raised a Titan Legion for its defence, and the imperium can ask the AM to lend them some of their military power to defend their common cause. I don't know if that "fluff"* has been retconed since then, but the AdMech originally created at least small TL to defend each new FW they established, although those were smaller and had a bit less prestige until years enabled them to grow and conflicts to earn some more glory for themselves.
After all, even Ad-mech tied agriculture world get nice Knights...




*I actually hate that word, but it IS faster and less repetitive to type than "background setting" or "fictional universe context"

just to chip in in a rather non-specific way

I always regarded the pdf force as more like the personal army of a techpriest guarding his forge.

My view is that whilst titan legions certainly have their own skitarii regiments and that a tech priest could call on the favours of the titan legion the two aren't implicitly linked (like imp guard and marines, beleive the same things and fight for the same side and occasionaly appear on the same battlefield but are different armies - although admitedly there is a far greater bond in this case).

My own feelings are that whilst having the option to select titans is fluffy and useful they shouldn't form a crutch that every list is based around.

_________________
You see a mouse trap? I see free cheese and a f*cking challenge! - Scroobius Pip

Well, I'd like to know what other want from this list then.

If I just have misplaced expectation from this list, then is a list meant to represent a mixed force such as the ones I was referring to planned in the future ?

I personally like Abnett's take on the AM militant order, and in this context the skitarii are an integral part of the Titan legions, and that's the theme of the army I'd like to collect.

I see the two forces as closely linked allies, with independent command structures but common aims.
Considerably closer integration than AM-Marine or AM-IG operations, but still not a single force.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

A points decrease would be appreciated.

Have you ever thought about giving Fearless to the Majoris? It seems a little odd to me that Titans have Fearless, but not them.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

I have, but in a negative sense.

A Titan is big and nasty enough to tough it out, whilst an Ordinatus, beneath the void shields is basically a big bunch of exposed cabling and girders... it's not the kind of thing that could make an organised retreat from an overwhleming close combat assault... the Khorne Berzerkers would just ride along with it as it tried to drive away, and tear it to pieces!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Fair enough.

_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Ok then, here's a second V2.00 preview.


Notable changes:
Ordinatus Minoris points costs reduced.
*All* conventional artillery removed (Now restricted to just Ord Min's with arty + CLP upgrades)
Rhino transports added.


Stat changes:

Ordinatus Minoris' twin heavy bolters become heavy bolters.
All Ordinatus Engines gain AA6+ on their heavy bolters.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

You're still paying ~42 points more than a company Minoris for the Minoris upgrade. I'm not sure it adds enough to any of the core formations to warrent it. Especially given the vagaries of the activation system, the cost scales linearly at most. I'd look at dropping it another 25, but I'll see about tossing together some lists later today.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I like it.

I'd like to see the macharius company have more options than just the command tank though. Perhaps allow all vulcan to be taken and all battle cannon with the option to upgrade one or two to vanquisher.

_________________
-Vaaish

I might be being greedy but the list feels slightly echo-ey to me (lots of empty space which could be filled with lovely choices)

I know this list is a development one but at some point I've really got to post a picture of the pile of models I've bought when they were valid in the list and now dropped. Thy're not wasted though they've all gone on to join other armies but its been a painful experience.

However it's all been positive for the list and I'm particualy looking forward to the overall theme, playing style and composition of the list being ironed out in this thread.

_________________
You see a mouse trap? I see free cheese and a f*cking challenge! - Scroobius Pip

I could do something similar, only many of them are painted red!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Finally painting them does seem to be the Kiss of Death >:D

_________________
You see a mouse trap? I see free cheese and a f*cking challenge! - Scroobius Pip

Alright, having taken a look at the list today, I see a few discrepancies.

1) The Infantry Support upgrade is undercosted. 100pt was the right cost, 20pt/stand. The current cost (for the upgrade) is 15pt/stand, less than the 16.66pt/stand IG Infantry cost. The cost of a Demi-Century would break down to 9 stands @ 180 and a Tech Preist @ 95. The TP might well still be overcosted, but the 20/stand cost seems reasonable for both.

2) The Minoris Upgrade needs to drop 25 more pt, IMO. Already mentioned it, though. My hope is to allow a Minoris Upgrade to be a feasable option for a Demi-Century. Right now I find myself using it as a CLP carrier for Minoris and Majoris, and not much else, which brings me to...

3) The Majoris. On the one hand, the cost of the Mars Pattern (Sonic Disruptor) needs to be increased. An Ordinatus Mars with a Minoris upgrade carrying a CLP is 675pt. A Minoris Company and Minoris upgrade with 3 AML and a CLP is 650pt. For 25pt, I get +1 BP, Disrupt, IC, and +66% range, but a couple less DC and Voids. On the other hand I can't see using one unless it's a named one, because I get fewer DC, Voids and Weapons, all other things being equal, for the same cost.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.