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Points for weapons.
baronpiero	Post subject: Points for weapons. Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:49 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186	CLausewitzThe idea of points costs for weapons has been discussed several times in the development of AMTL, but every time you hit the same problem. ?It encourages the worst kind of min/maxing. Just a question: is the weapon list supposed to replace Tactical/Assault/Support titans? I rather saw weapon costing come in addition to it. Basically... 1) Balance weapons for tactical titans 2) See how you could extend it to assault/support titans. These can be min-maxed and it could be taken into account on their chassis: - for instance, have Assault and Support titan chassis more expensive. - or have Assault and support titan chassis have a drawback (less FF and/or CC?) How do you see the grand scheme of things for yourself?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Points for weapons. Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:00 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London

Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 07 June 2006 (15:23)) Min / Maxing is a fact of life, but if you min/max too much, you end up with an inflexible list that gets cut to ribbons... for example, you'd let you get into Assault range with only those crazy CC config Warlords? Sure you'd be supreme in CC, but noone would let you fight on your terms. No need, with three (or even just two) I run them over to the blitz and T&H objective and sit on them. Shift that. As for min maxing - in Epic if you can max out on WE and TK/MW you have a big advantage due to the game system. Is there a consensus that the Epic:A config Reaver's points cost should be dropped by 50 points? No, but there is one that the BP weapon goes to 3BP and the ranged weapons to 60cm range. Then its dandy. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Points for weapons. Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:07 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Quote (baronpiero @ 07 June 2006 (15:49)) CLausewitzThe idea of points costs for weapons has been discussed several times in the development of AMTL, but every time you hit the same problem.  It encourages the worst kind of min/maxing. Just a question: is the weapon list supposed to replace Tactical/Assault/Support titans? I rather saw weapon costing come in addition to it. Basically... 1) Balance weapons for tactical titans 2) See how you could extend it to assault/support titans. These can be min-maxed and it could be taken into account on their chassis: - have Assault and Support titan chassis more expensive - or have Assault and support titan chassis have a drawback (less FF and/or CC?) How do you see the grand scheme of things for yourself? The points costings list originally came into being as a method of allowing other Imperial armies to be able to take different configuration Titans... as it was in older versions of Epic. I just remember the fun flavour of taking all sorts of titan configs and causing immense havoc. At some point, these points also got tied up with the AMTL list. I hadn't really considered the method in which these points costings would be integrated into the AMTL list. I suspect that it would be quite possible though. All of the current list special rules would still apply (Such as the ratios of what weapons are allowed in the list, certain options taking up two slots etc). Basically, instead of paying fixed points for each titan, you'd build each one with the points costs for the weapons upgrades listed, but still obeying the AMTL composition rules. I'll examine the AMTL list more closely and see what else would be needed to incorporate the points costs. _________________ Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: Points for weapons. Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am Posts: 20887 Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 07 June 2006 (16:00)) Quote (Evil and Chaos @ 07 June 2006 (15:23)) Min / Maxing is a fact of life, but if you min/max too much, you end up with an inflexible list that gets cut to ribbons... for example, you'd let you get into Assault range with only those crazy CC config Warlords? Sure you'd be supreme in CC, but noone would let you fight on your terms. As for min maxing - in Epic if you can max out on WE and TK/MW you have a big advantage due to the game system. Is there a consensus that the Epic:A config Reaver's points cost should be dropped by 50 points? No, but there is one that the BP weapon goes to 3BP and the ranged weapons to 60cm range. Then its dandy. No need, with three (or even just two) I run them over to the blitz and T&H objective and sit on them. Shift that.

I think most armies would be able to either smack the CC titan with enough firepower to dislodge it, or form up a huge wave of units that will order a massive combined charge on the CC titan. Lacking ranged weapons the titan won't be able to prevent the enemy dictating when and where they will fight.

Now if the CC weapons are undercosted in my proposed list (And they might well be), allowing players to take too many CC titans, that can be fixed.


Is there a consensus that the Epic:A config Reaver's points cost should be dropped by 50 points?

No, but there is one that the BP weapon goes to 3BP and the ranged weapons to 60cm range. Then its dandy.

Then that should apply.

I'm against changing the basic points costs of the standard config titans unless there's a huge ammount of support. All my weapons costings are built based on comparisons with the standard titan cost. I'd rather not mess with something so basic unless it's obviously broken.