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[BatRep] First game with Tyranids...
Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:52 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Well, my little EPIC group had our first game featuring Tyranids last night and it was a blast.  I fielded them against my brother's Imperial Guard.  He didn't know he was facing 'Nids so it was an intersting battle, which the Guard wound up winning 2-0 in turn 3.  We used some variant/experimental rules/stats for the 'Nids as well.   I'll try to post a small battle report and the changes we were using later today. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Markconz	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:50 pm
Purestrain Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm Posts: 7925 Location: New Zealand	I look forward to it, especially seeing the rules you used. Thanks Chroma! _________________ http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
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ragnarok	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:34 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	I too look forwrd to hearing what happened and what rule set you used.  Though I am saddened by the fact the 'nids lost, at least it proves the list isn't over powered. _________________ Tyranid air marshal
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:56 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Rules Changes Used Termagants: 15 points, gain CC5+ and FF5+ Lictors: 200 points for 3, only one MW attack, gain Commander ability Dacto-Exocrines: Super Spore Mines 45cm 1BP, Indirect Fire, Disrupt Lesser Synapse Node: gain Scout ability Greater Synapse Node: gain "Ripper Swarms", CC6+ and FF5+ Spawning: 1 pip per Common Brood, 2 pips per Uncommon Brood/DC Armies Tyranid Horde - 2500 Points Synapse 1 Hive Tyrant 2 Tyranid Warrior Formations 2 x Lesser Synapse Nodes 1 x Greater Synapse Node Independent Broods 2 x Lictor Broods 1 x Genestealer Brood Common Broods 10 Termagants 10 Hormagaunts 7 Gargoyles 4 Raveners Uncommon Broods 3 Dacto-Exocrine 3 Carnifex 2 Zoanthrope 3 Mycetic Spores 1 Hierodule Mechanized Guard Battalion - 2500 Points Steel Legion Regimental HQ With Mechanized Ogryns and Commissar Steel Legion Mechanized Infantry Company With Commissar Steel Legion SHT Company 3 Baneblades with Commissar Steel Legion Artillery Battery 3 Bombards Steel Legion Storm Trooper Platoon With 4 Valkyries and Commissar Steel Legion Flak Battery 1 With Commissar Steel Legion Flak Battery 2 With Commissar Steel Legion Sentinel Squadron With Commissar Battlefield Three hills/ridges across the centre of the table at a 45 degree angle from the table edges. NW quarter heavily forested, NE quarter lightly forested and scattered imperial ruins, SW and SE quarters scattered Imperial ruins. Imperial Guard player choose to play "corners", picking the NE corner to deploy into; both Blitzkrieg objectives were set midpoint on the long edges. ?Other objectives were setup relatively deep into each backfield so none were really close to the midpoint. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:20 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Setup Garrisons IG Garrisoned the Sentinels and Storm Troopers in ruins at the top of a hill with the Valkyries tucked in behind the hill. Tyranids kept both Lictor units off-board; Lesser Synapse Node 1 was garrisoned in some ruins near forward objective one in the SE quarter of the table, along with the Heirodule, 3 Carnifex, the Hive Tyrant, 1 Zoanthrope, and 3 Gargoyles. ?The Genestealers were also garrisoned into ruins off of this objective, but closer to the enemy. Lesser Synapse Node 2 was garrisoned near forward objective two into some woods and had 2 Raveners, 6 Hormagaunts, and 2 Gargoyles with it. Warrior Brood 1 was garrisoned in some ruins near forward objective 2 and had 2 Raveners, 4 Hormagaunts, and two Termagants. Deployment IG deployed the Company HQ and one Flak Battery together just behind a ridge close to the Hive Tyrant brood and placed the SHT Company near them for support. ?The Mech Company and other Hydras were placed on the other end of the ridge facing the Warrior brood. ?The Artillery Battery was in the back corner near the Blitzkrieg objective. Tyranids deployed the Greater Synapse Node in some ruins near their Blitzkrieg and also placed the Dacto-Exocrines there. ?The remaining Warrior brood was placed near the Blitzkrieg with the other Zoanthrope and 2 Gargoyles. ?The remaining 8 Termagants were left in the spawn pool (because I had neglected to put them on my deployment table and had completely forgotten about them until the first turn started!). _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:11 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Turn 1 - Strategy Tyranids Tyranid SNG with EOD sustain fire, but are just out of range to hit the Bombards so drop a template on the Commisar's Baneblade and a few of Regimental HQ's infantry: SHT company takes 2 hits (1 save, no crit - 3 BMs) and one infantryman is hit and dies (2 BMs). ?Tyranids retain, marching Warrior Brood 2 up the middle of the table and into ruins on the top of the middle hill. Guard sustain fires the Bombards, only using two, targeting the Genestealer Brood: the Hive Mind curse into the Warp as only three of the eight survive the rain of fire. ?No retain. Tyranids advance the Hive Tyrant and its brood of armoured flesh forward towards the SHT Company leaving a tenuous line of Gargoyles linked with SNL1. ?Firing is ineffective, laying a blast marker on the Baneblades (total 4BMs). ?No retain. Baneblades advance (one suppressed) and unleash everything they've got on the Hive Tyrant brood, but can't penetrate the thick hides of the creatures ("Does everything in your army have reinforced armour?!" was my brother's cry.). ?Hydras retain, advance, firing on the Tyrant brood to no effect (more cursing from the Guard.). SNL2 doubles its brood towards the garrisoned Tyranid warriors brood. ?Remaining Genestealers double to get closer to the SHT company and near the Hive Tyrant brood. Valkyries advance, pop up and fire rockets and guns into the garrisoned Warrior brood while the Stormtroopers remain in cover. ?Casualties are very heavy for the 'Nids, losing 2 Warriors, 2 Raveners, 1 Hormagaunt, and 2 Termagants (this is when I remembered my missing Gaunts!). ?Hydras retain (after re-roll) and double to fire on the garrisoned Warriors, wiping out everything but the last Warrior in a hail of autocannon and bolter fire ("I need '8' to hit? ?How do I do that?" And then he proceeded to show me. *sigh*). Feeling lonely, the single Warrior Spawns (Marshals), moving just outside of 30cm of the enemy and, with the help of a mycetic spore, rolls 3d6, getting an 11, giving birth to 2 Raveners, 4 Hormagaunts and 5 Termagants all protected by the ruins(my brother was a bit put off by this, considering there was a big mass of other broodlings that would be joining the Warrior at the start of the next turn.). The Mechanized Company doubled up to fire on the brood SNL2 had moved forward blasting all but the Gargoyles into ichor. ?The Company HQ doubled to place themselves between the Baneblades and the Tyrant horde, with the Ogryns and Commissar out in front; their massed fire was also ineffective. ?Finally, the Sentinels on their hill went on Overwatch. Turn 1 ends and things look rough for the Guard as very few Tyranids remained dead. _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:01 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Turn 2 Both Lictor Broods pop up, one in the IG's rear right beside the Bombards and the other forming a chain between the Hive Tyrant's Brood and the remaining Genestealers? this is going to be good? Strategy Roll - Tyranids win. Lictors declare a combined assault with the Genestealers and Hive Tyrant Brood against the commingled Company HQ and Baneblades? and roll a "1" (There was much hissing and gnashing of teeth.) moving into a better position for next time. Bombards advance out of the other Lictors' zone of control and open fire with 2BP and 3 heavy bolters, killing two of the Lictors? curse that ignore cover! ?Baneblades retain with a Marshall, firing on the Hive Tyrant brood and this time doing some damage, 2 Carnifex die and the Heirodule takes a wound, they then remove all their blastmarkers. The artillery brood opens fire again on the intermingled Baneblades and Company HQ, two more infantry die and the SHT get some blastmarkers. ?The lone Lictor near the enemy artillery decides to get some revenge and moves to engage them? and rolls a "1"? *SIGH* Regimental HQ sustains fire on the Hive Tyrant, killing the remaining Carnifex, the Zoanthrope and 1 Gargoyle. ?Hydra Battery retains and goes on overwatch, guns pointed at the Genestealers. Hive Tyrant marshals, moving slightly closer, with 2 Mycetic Spores for 3d6 (12 pips), respawns the 3 Carnifex plus 2 Raveners, and 4 Hormagaunts. Valkyries sustain against the garrisoned Tyranid Warrior and its brood, again doing massive damage and manage to kill some Gaunts and, sadly, the last warrior. ?Mechanized Infantry double and fire on the Warrior Brood that marched last turn to little effect. Warrior brood advances to gather the orphaned Gaunts and fires ineffectively at the Mechanized Infantry only placing a blast marker. ?Synapse node 2 respawns, giving birth to several Gaunts that hide in the woods, guarding it. Hydras advance and fire ineffectively at the Warrior brood. ?Sentinels stay on overwatch. Lesser synapse node 1 is forgotten in all the excitement. All IG rallies fail! _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:33 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Turn 3 Strategy Roll - IG wins. Baneblades advance out of commingled distance and fire ineffectively at the Hive Tyrant. ?The regimental HQ retains (on a re-roll) and goes on Overwatch. Lictors declare a combined assault with the Genestealers and Hive Tyrant Brood against the Company HQ and? don't roll a "1"! ?Woohoo! ?The overwatch fire of the Hydras and the HQ is devastating: ?all Tyranid infantry units except *1* Lictor are wiped out, leaving only 3 Carnifex, the wounded Heirodule, and the Hive Tyrant itself left to fight? and it's almost enough. ?The fight is brutal and the Ogryns, led by a Commissar, sell themselves dearly. ?In the end many men die and many tanks are destroyed, but only a savaged Heirodule (1 wound left) is still standing for the Tyranids. ?It's still too much for the Guard and they flee. ?The confused Heirodule moves 5cm bringing it *barely* in synapse range of the Tyranid Warriors on the hill. ?The remaining Lictor eyes the Bombards, but the deaths of all its broodmates has still somehow shaken it and it does nothing but hide (another "1" *sigh). The Mech Company doubles to bring fire against SNL2 and its Gaunts, destroying its guardians but not harming the Node. ?The Hydras retain, sustaining on the remaining Warrior brood killing all the Gaunts within 30cm. The Warriors smile some toothy smiles, marshal, moving slightly out of range of the enemy and roll box-cars on the respawn, bringing up 3 Carnifex and a host of other monstrosities the time will soon be ripe to consume the enemy! ?The artillery brood throws more spore bomb at the broken HQ and kills a few more of them. (My brother suddenly realizes that the lone Lictor is the only thing keeping him from getting "They Shall Not Pass.) ?The Sentinels leave their protective ruins (making all their dangerous terrain tests) and hunt down the sole remaining Lictor, lasering it into a fine red mist. Lesser Synapse Node 1 is remembered and spawns more broodlings, but to no avail. The Stormtroopers board their Valkyries and swoop down on their one unclaimed objective, defending the flag from the enemy. Victory - Imperial Guard 2 (Defend the Flag, Hold the Line) - Tyranids 0 The Devourer had been stopped for now, but the wind still carried dark spores and the sound of gnashing teeth? _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Chroma	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:47 am
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm Posts: 9684 Location: Montréal, QC, Canada	Commentary Both my brother and I agreed that I lost the game in turn 2 with the failed combined assault, without all that annoying overwatch and including the Baneblades as targets would've probably been way too much for the Guard to handle. ?Still, live by the dice, die by the dice. Unfortunately the game play didn't allow us to test all our "rules changes", but the few we did get to use seemed good. First off, we felt there was no way the 'Nids should be able to out-shoot the Guard. ?With Dactos being 2BP and having such incredible range they are just too much for 'Nids and really encourage a "sit back and shoot" approach which no Hive Tyrant should be thinking (advance and shoot is a totally different story! ?*laugh* ?One I intend to try next time.). ?Reducing the range and the barrage points made them much less of a sure thing, which is good, in my opinion. Well, most of my Termagants died before they even got to do anything, so I can't judge what they would be like with different stats; I feel the stats we were using are more representative of Gaunts with Fleshborers in the new Codex, maybe with CC6+ instead of 5+. ?I like them at 15 points as well as it's not quite so tough to fill up the Common broods. Though they had a poor showing even with three stands I can't imagine using Lictors with only two units in the formation, other than as an activation spoiler, since they seemed to die so easily. ?*sigh* ?I really do like them having the commander ability however, even though it failed the first time, it really felt like they were leading the swarm to prey! I rolled really well on my respawning and having every type of brood being 1 pip seems just silly, especially if you have multiple "big hitters", I think the 2 per Uncommon is definitely the way to go. As to the Lesser Synapse Nodes, without Scout, they're going to die any time they try to send out broods as they'll always be "left behind". The Greater Nodes kind of have this already with the War Engine's greater squad coherency.  It seemed cool to have the Lesser Nodes spawn creatures to move forward. Lastly, we both really felt the Greater Synapse Node needed some kind of defensive ability, but since no one got near it we weren't sure how it will work in practice. ?Next time maybe the enemy will try to fight my artillery. ?*laugh* Well, that's it for now, I look forward to people's comment and questions! ?Tyranids were a lot of fun to play and "Terrifying to face" in the words of my brother. ?I look forward to fielding them again and I'll let you know how it goes! _________________ "EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
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Markconz	Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:44 am
Purestrain Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm Posts: 7925 Location: New Zealand	Quote (Chroma @ 01 Nov. 2005 (00:47)) Commentary Both my brother and I agreed that I lost the game in turn 2 with the failed combined assault, without all that annoying overwatch and including the Baneblades as targets would've probably been way too much for the Guard to handle. ?Still, live by the dice, die by the dice. Unfortunately the game play didn't allow us to test all our "rules changes", but the few we did get to use seemed good. 1. First off, we felt there was no way the 'Nids should be able to out-shoot the Guard. ?With Dactos being 2BP and having such incredible range they are just too much for 'Nids and really encourage a "sit back and shoot" approach which no Hive Tyrant should be thinking (advance and shoot is a totally different story! ?*laugh* ?One I intend to try next time.). ?Reducing the range and the barrage points made them much less of a sure thing, which is good, in my opinion. 2. Well, most of my Termagants died before they even got to do anything, so I can't judge what they would be like with different stats; I feel the stats we were using are more representative of Gaunts with Fleshborers in the new Codex, maybe with CC6+ instead of 5+. ?I like them at 15 points as well as it's not quite so tough to fill up the Common broods. 3. Though they had a poor showing even with three stands I can't imagine using Lictors with only two units in the formation, other than as an activation spoiler, since they seemed to die so easily. ?*sigh* ?I really do like them having the commander ability however, even though it failed the first time, it really felt like they were leading the swarm to prey! 4. I rolled really well on my respawning and having every type of brood being 1 pip seems just silly, especially if you have multiple "big hitters", I think the 2 per Uncommon is definitely the way to go. 5. As to the Lesser Synapse Nodes, without Scout, they're going to die any time they try to send out broods as they'll always be "left behind". The Greater Nodes kind of have this already with the War Engine's greater squad coherency. ?It seemed cool to have the Lesser Nodes spawn creatures to move forward. 6. Lastly, we both really felt the Greater Synapse Node needed some kind of defensive ability, but since no one got near it we weren't sure how it will work in practice. ?Next time maybe the enemy will try to fight my artillery. ?*laugh* Well, that's it for now, I look forward to people's comment and questions! ?Tyranids were a lot of fun to play and "Terrifying to face" in the words of my brother. ?I look forward to fielding them again and I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for all your feedback Chroma. Regarding point 1 (I've numbered your points in the quoted post), this is almost always the first thing people say when they use 5.40B. My thoughts are reduce the Dactocrine to 1BP, and remove barrrage from the biovore and just give it AP5+/AT5+ indirect/disrupt. (it is roughly the same power as a ork big gun in 40k).  Other people have expressed very similar opinions. Point 2: Agreed termies should be FF5+, CC6+ and 15 points. They work well like this I think. Gargoyles should also get FF5+. Point 3. I have been using lictors as first strike 2+, no MW or extra attack, 3 to a brood for 150. (More representative of their 40k combat prowess, still very good, but not over the top (they just can't punch through armour like a carnifex or tyrant in 40k why give them the ability in epic? It is not needed and gives the wrong feel IMHO - they shouldn't be tank busters). Also it is another step in the right direction of making bugs (other than just the little guys) feel like a swarm rather than a handful of elite bugs. I don't think the commander ability is necessary or justified - lictors do not command other bugs in a field battle. The pheremone trail is already represented by the fact that the bugs are here fighting a battle against the enemy... the licotrs role now becomes that of a behind the enemy lines ambusher. 4. Yes I thought you got really lucky with the spawning!!  We've been using the 1 for Common 2 for Uncommon method, it is much better. 5. I haven't used synapse nodes much - why do they die when broods move away - aren't they synapse?? 6. Yes I felt sorry for my GSN when the termies arrive... I think just giving it (and lesser ones) rippers (6+ CC and FF) is enough. If people want to defend them more than that they can always leave some bigger bugs with them! _________________ http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
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ragnarok

Post subject: [BatRep] First game with Tyranids... Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:04 am

Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England

1. Is 45cm good range for Dacto? I've used 60cm but with 1BP and they seem to work ok like that. I personnally think the range should be 60cm for both variants of the exorcine. The 45cm range on the exco is forcing me to take the dacto to get some shots in 2. I'm not sure about this. I like the 10pt termies. However the Gargoyles should be a bit better to be useful It might be good to give them FF5+. Atm i don't use them much as they are twice as costly as termies. Also if termies are upped, then CC6+ FF5+ is better way to go than both 5+.

I agree termies shouldn't have CC5+, for the living ammo if nothing else.