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How to use a Vituperator?

ragnarok

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:41 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England

I've got three of these bird stuck in my conversion pool and I'm wondering what to do with them once they are built.

I know I can't use all three in a single battle, that would be silly wouldn't it.

I'm just curious as to the tactics people have in mind for them. They are expensive and quite light as a WE. They are weaker and more expensive than the bio titans, though they can lead their own combined assaults (run in and de transport 8 stands of infantry and possible a tyrant

).

They are too expensive to justify using them to argument spawning (okay so is the harridan but he doesn't have a decent job either).

Finally they aren't that good as battlefield taxis. since they can't transport heavy stuff and can only carry 3 warriors plus 5 other guys.

Its only job, as far as I can tell is to transport three warriors and 5 raveners deep into the enemies half (march) then in the end phase hope both can spawn with mycetic spores to give 4D3+1 gaunt broods.

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Chroma

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:00 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

I've never really had a use for either of the "flying" Synapse creatures.

The Harridan proved useful in the recent "Escalating Engagement" scenario I played in, as it's the only Tyranid creature with a move greater than 30cm, so that let me get it in to play Turn 1.

In the Tournament Scenario, it, and the Vituperator are just too "soft" for their points *especially* with just 2DC and 4DC: they just get plinked right out of their formation as they are next to impossible to screen.

If fielding Tyranid War Engines, I'd much prefer to spend the points on Bio-Titans.

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nealhunt

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:19 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA

The Vituperator works as a big, veiny WE transport. While "light" as a WE, they are tough enough to shrug off a lot of fire as long as it's not multi-TK and that's a heck of a payload to deliver. Think of it as comparable to an Ork warband in a Fortress. One of those things with 8 Raveners is fast enough to use terrain for cover and still have a good chance to jump on stuff (for example, a slow Ork infantry formation - not that I would know... :;):

).

We also theorized about the "March the Warrior Swarm and Spawn" plan but no one's tried it yet (haven't been playing Nids recently). It should be nasty, but then again it's also 675 plus the to-be-spawned critters so it should be.

Since a Vituperator can carry a Tyrant, you could use the Tyrant/Warrior group and the Vituperator to spawn 4d3+3 if you thought it was worth it (or 2 Tyrants, 6d3+3 spawning). With that amount, you could be pretty much guaranteed to have enough for a Carnifex or two to soak hits off the Tyrant and still have several broods as well.

I think the optimal way to work that plan would be to garrison a swarm, use the "out-of-coherency assault" in turn 1 to hit something and allow some of the broods to go to ground for spawning ammo. Hopefully you would get some combat use out of them instead of just keeping them off-board but at the very least they could serve as an effective feint.

Once it has delivered its payload the Vituperator is a fairly nasty bit of fire support. In or near the opponent's line, that template breath weapon is a serious threat. I think those breath templates are better than round barrages at forcing the enemy to spread out. 4 FF4+ attacks are also quite nice for supporting an assault, making a fire/support combo especially attractive.

============

The other thing is that Vituperator/Ravener combo averages almost 4 points of damage versus a 4+RA WE. The Vituperator has a decent chance of scoring 4 or more TK hits by itself (1 in 6).

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epilgrim

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:41 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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Last time I checked you could not combine synapse groups and swarm values...am I wrong?

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Chroma

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:07 am

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(epilgrim @ Sep. 26 2006,00:41)

QUOTE

Last time I checked you could not combine synapse groups and swarm values...am I wrong?

It's not that they're actually combined, it just, sort of, works that way in the the resolution. ?

In the End Phase, both Synapse groups spawn individually, but in the next turn, you assign all the Brood to only one of the Synapse groups, so it's the equivalent of combining the two spawning values... if they both spawn, that is! ?*laugh*

Only problem is you're going to be all packed together, making a very tempting barrage target.

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ragnarok

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:19 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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I've thought of a fix that would make vituperators more interesting. Allow them to carry zonathropes and biovores.

This would allow then to deploy forwards artillery units. A tyrant and a mixture of vores and thropes. Then both the tyrant and the vituperator spawn a meatshield of raveners and termigaunts.

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Chroma

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:41 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
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Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(ragnarok @ Sep. 26 2006,12:19)

QUOTE

I've thought of a fix that would make vituperators more interesting. ?Allow them to carry zonathropes and biovores.

This would allow then to deploy forwards artillery units. ?A tyrant and a mixture of vores and thropes. ?Then both the tyrant and the vituperator spawn a meatshield of raveners and termigaunts.

Well, I tend to already garrison forward "artillery" with 'Thropes, 'Vore, and Tyrants, usually on overwatch as well, so I'm not sure that's needed, but a wider variety of transportable units would be good.

I'm not sure how a Tyrant or Vituperator can use a "meatshield" of infantry? All an opponent has to do is fire AT at the formations and those little gribblies are ignored.

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ragnarok

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:56 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England

(Chroma @ Sep. 26 2006,13:41)

QUOTE

I'm not sure how a Tyrant or Vituperator can use a "meatshield" of infantry? ?All an opponent has to do is fire AT at the formations and those little gribblies are ignored.

The tyrant (it doesn't work for the vituperator as it is a WE) hides behind the LV biovores and thropes, which are in turn shielded from AP fire by a wall of gaunts.

It is a tactic I thought up after reading a FAQ on how you allocate hits on mixed formations that include LVs. Though I might of read it wrong.

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nealhunt

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:14 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Rag: That should work just fine.

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ragnarok

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:20 am

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
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Location: Reading, England

(nealhunt @ Sep. 26 2006,14:14)

QUOTE

Rag: ?That should work just fine.

You've confused me

.

Is it my tactic working fine, or my idea for a fix for the vituperator?

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epilgrim

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:19 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
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None of you are going to like this, but here are the Vitup stats my group is toying with....

Vituperator
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
War Engine ?25cm / 4+ / 4+ / 5+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Twin-Linked Bio-Cannon / 45cm / 2x AP 2+/AT 3+ / Ignore Cover
Pyro-Acidic Spray / flame template / AP 4+/AT 5+ / Ignore Cover
Bio-Titan Talons / (base contact) / (assault weapons) / Macro-Weapon, Titan Killer (1), Extra Attacks (+1)
Notes: DC (5), Reinforced Armour, Skimmer, Commander, Fearless, Synapse (2d3-1), Transport (8); May carry eight of the following units: Tyranid Warrior, Termagant, Hormagaunt, Gargoyle and Ravener. The following units may also be carried but each takes up two Transport slots: Malanthrope, Biovore and Zoanthrope.
Critical Hit: Roll 1d6 and consult the chart below.
1-5: The Vituperator suffers one additional point of damage.
6: The Vituperator suffers d3 additional points of damage.
Note: If the Vituperator is killed by a Critical Hit all transported units are killed, additionally the Vituperator drifts 2d6 in a random direction and crashes to the ground splattering flesh, chitin and corrosive fluid like grapeshot. All units within 15cm of the impact point are hit on a AP 5+/AT 5+.

First off no one liked the auto kill on a 6, second the DC seemed to be to high, third the transporting of an HT but no other AV was a turn off, lastly the profile was way over 325 given the earlier notations.

I opted to suggest new criticals effects, revised DC, revised transport to include LV, but no AV and a more streamlined fast attack profile as opposed to a fast moving wrecking ball...that is reserved for the Modular Bio-Titans. As I said at the head of the thread I don't think many of you will like it, but here it is anyway.

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epilgrim

Post subject: How to use a Vituperator?

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:35 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Hena,

I hear what you are saying, but I have noted a lot of dissent on the idea of a AA template and the availability of AA in the Bug list over all. With Zoeys and Doms that seems like enough. Keep in mind that in this profile the Vitup can carry its own AA beasts if desired...a major plus over the existing entry.

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