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Imperial Starting fleet

 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:06 pm 
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Hya all!

Well, after geting all my chaos and SM ships left at home :( I have no possibnilities to play BFG unless I get them back, or I get a new fleet. Well, I decided to go for the later. Since I already got enough ships to get a fair fleet in chaos (and the SM one is being built slowly) so starting the fleet again would b a waste of money since I already got most line cruisers that I want to field and I should get heavy and grand cruisers to bulk it up, not more regular cruisers. I decided to get an small imperial fleet instead. I am going for the fluf, the looks and the gaming performance all at once. let's see whjat you think about the following fleet:

- Fleet admiral: Ld 8, 1 reroll
- Dictator
- Gothic
- Lunar
- Lunar
- 2 Swords
- 3 Cobras


Well, as you can see all he ships there are very common in most segmentum fleets so the fluff for the army can be whatever you want it to :) Teaming the 2 Lunars and sending the gothic for the kill is the basic strategy. The ships work together. Swords might be squadroned with the gothic if the enemy has a lot of ordenance (shared turret fire) and the cobras are the reserve as usual. Quite a good fleet and versatile for 1000 points. Also quite cheap to build since it is 2 blisters and 2 boxed sets to construct :) And of course the lunar and gothic are my favourite looking line cruisers in the imperial cruiser list. :)

What do you think about it? A fair fleet?

Health and a lot of sixes,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:34 pm 
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Yep, thats a great little 'fluffy' fleet- I'd get a few more Cobras perhaps as a well timed torpedo strike can be a battle-winning strategy...
When you come to get a battleship, you could get an Emperor, but personally I'd go for a Retribution as it looks cooler and big guns seem more characterful for an Imperial fleet...

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:17 pm 
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I like it!
It looks quite balanced and it should be fun to play with!

Cheers
Axt

PS: By the way, I've posted an Imperial list in the "Imperial fleet info needed... " topic.
Any comment or advice would be apreciated ! :;):


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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:15 am 
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Nice fleet list.  Personally I'd rather have more escorts and dump one of the CAs.  This gives you much more tactical flexibility and opportunities to flank an opponent and concenrtrate your firepower.  And as Stormseer said....a flanking torpedo attack can win you the game if its timed right!

Good Luck Admiral! :)

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:10 am 
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Would you mind telling xactly how would those extra escorts fit in (models and the like)? As you can see I will end up having a spare sword and a spare cobra when building that, so they are definitively options there. The startying money restrictions are important but an extra blister wouldn't be a problem to get. Suggested changes?

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Xavi

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:22 am 
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Why not swap out the Swords for a blister of Falchions? Almost as much firepower, and 1 torp to boot.


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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:39 am 
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Are falchions completely official? If the answer is "yes" I think I will take that path, yup. Good idea. Firepower 6 and torps 2. Not bad to act as ordi hunters and generally, annoyers. The thing is that they have 1 turret only as opposed to the 2 turrets of the swords, but hey.

Regs,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:47 am 
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I use the escorts in groups as they come in blaisters because it works tactically and its economical that way.  Thus I field Swords in 3s and Cobras in 4s.

It works that way because as you will find, escorts fold up and die very quickly.  A pair of swords probably wont get to inflict much damage and a salvo of 1 torp from a lone surviving Cobra isnt very effective either.  Then there is the mental pressure your enemy gets when seeing four ships bearing down with torps locked and loaded as well.. :p

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:25 am 
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Are falchions completely official?


They are ER now. They will be NR in Armada, along with the Apocalypse, Armageddon, Oberon and the Endeavour + variants.

The thing is that they have 1 turret only as opposed to the 2 turrets of the swords, but hey.


It's worth it though. I'd rather have 8 torps and 9WB than 6 torps and 11WB.


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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:01 pm 
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-What Tas says is very true- the more escorts, the better- just a couple won't get you very far... I tend to use them in groups "as they come" as well, for the very reasons Tas puts forward...

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:56 pm 
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Hya there!

Well after the comments on the escorts topic it seems people think they are needed, so there we go. Modifications to the list and thoughts. Let's see what you think about those :)

My idea was to have an al around fleet, not specialized against anything so this is why I was getting different stuff al around :)

In ay case one clear conclusion I can rise from the comments is that my imps are heavily lacking in escorts. I have 4 cruisers and 2 escorts squadrons (5 escorts total) in the original fleet. Basically you are saying "nope" to that combo. LOL. Well, back to the drawing board I guess. The problem is that I have no idea of what should I take out in order to get more escorts in.

As a reminder I was planning to get:

- An average carrier (dictator) in order to get that needed fighter coer for my fleet. Maybe it is me, but this seems a minimum to get a decent air cover. If someone convinces me that aircraft are not needed I might drop it, though. In the BFG aho list I posted he comment to see if the aircraft cover was needed and the conclusion I drew from the responses was that yup, you are way bette with that minimal air cover.

- 2 lunars teamed up. Broadside of WB 12 and 4 lances is good to take down....almost anything. It is not overly astonishing so I also added...

- 1 dictator to go for the kill. Gorgeous model and IMO a good ship to mopp up hurted stuff. Faced it in 3 games and basicaly this is what he did with my hurted cruisers: tear them appart while loked on.

If you think one of those cruisers ca go down the ladder without much problems I am ok about removing it. An other option is to get one of the lunars armd with a Nova cannon. That way he would be able to a) be a treat to enemy ordenance and b) have a powerful weapon on the front at long range, even if a quite random one. The downside is that I would be unable to deploy that massed 12 torpedo firepower in the front that is also appealing.... In that case I suppose I would team up the torpedo lunar with the gothic for the 12 torp wave and use the other lunar on his own. 2 x WB6 is almost as powerful as a WB 12 salvo.

Now, I am taking in mind combos that do not include escorts :( so in fact I am not following the advise here. Would an Enforcer (frontal of lances 30/3, 2 launch bays total, 110 points) be enough for the air cover? If I took that and the NC instead of the Dictator I would be saving 90 points for an other 3 strong cobra squadron or enough to boost the existing squadrons up.

In the games I have played I have used both the torp and the lance armed escorts in my chaos fleet,one squadron of 3-4 of each type. The result is that they did die not rapidly, but astonishingly fast. They were primary targets for my enemy and he ensured that the weak protection of the dudes worked in his favour. I suppoiose this is why I don'thave much confidence in my escorts. I suppose I still have to lear how to use them.


As a version 2 of the list I could get....

- Fleet Admiral: Ld 8, 1 reroll

- Gothic

- Lunar

- Lunar with Nova Cannon

- Enforcer

- 3 Swords

- 4 Cobras

- 2 Cobras

TACTICS (sort of):
- Gothic and torp lunar teamed up. WB 6 and more importantly 6 lances and a 12 strong torp salvo if I want to. The other lunar with the NC goes lurking on his on.

- enforcer provides a very mild fighter cover, taking down some fighters or torps. If I run down of ordenance I will use him as a usual lance ship, using the 90 degrees turn and the 3 lances in the front to try to cause some damage. Otherwise I will try to protect him, not sending him into the fray too soon. I think I need those fighters. I am waiting for comments on the air cover issue, BTW ;)

- 3 swords to act as...ell, swords. hunt down stuff with WB12. Probably locked on if I can most of the time.

- 3 cobras. torpedo dudes. Not much more here. Usual role

- 2 cobras. Ordi hunters mainly. str 4 torps is not something to be amazed about, but they can do a fair job there IMO.

The problem with this list is that it is way more expensive than the other. I need to get an other blister pack of escorts and the enforcer (I think those come in pairs?) in order to construct the fleet, so the cost rises a little bit but hey. For that cost I could start considering to take a grand cruiser though....

The advantage of the first fleet was cheapness. I expect the advantageof this other fleet to be battlefield (battlespace?) performance.

Any thoughts? Does the list looks better? What about the aircraft cover? Thx in advance for the comments :)

Cheers,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:20 pm 
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The list is okay.  At 1000pts you should be able to get away with just 2 launch bays.

I'm not sure about the 2 cobras.  I dont see them doing a great deal.  I dont want to totally alter your list as you are on a budget, but I still think you need more escorts.

Lunar
Lunar + Nova
Enforcer
3 Firestorm SQD
3 Sword SQD
4 Cobra SQD

would be a nice list.  I dont know the individual point values so I'm guessing.  The Gothics are nice, but I think the enforcer and firestorms could do the same job, maybe even better as their lances fire forward.  A head on is usually where the hardest armour is, and the last thing you want to do is show your flank to fire your lances.

What does that add up to with your admiral?


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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:46 am 
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That would be 910, so there would be space for an other group of 3 cobras.

Fleet admiral, ld8, 1 reroll (75)

Lunar (180)
Lunar (200) Nova cannon
Enforcer (110)

3 swords (105)
3 firestorms (120)
4 Cobras (120)
3 Cobras (90)

Well,from my POV maybe it would be wiser to drop the firestorms and get an other Enforcer for the cost. That also gives 30/3 lances to me in the prow, but it is a light cruiser, so more hits overall. More or less I think that light cruisers are cruiser-sized escorts. Maybe a little bit less maneuverable, but they have more hit points to compensate and some nice additional weaponry to compensate, like the 2 launch bays.

Also, IIRC the dautless models come in pairs (might be wrong here), so that would be a way to save money as well. What do you think? 1 cruiser box, 2 dauntless models, 3 escort packs.

Problem I see with this fleet: loads of reload artillery special orders.  hate my rolls...

Regs,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:19 am 
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I could be mistaken, but isn't the admiral 50pts with 1 re-roll free.  And then 25pts for an extra 1 50pts for 2 etc?

Go for the two dauntless then.  I dont think it comes in pairs, but I've never bought one. :blush:

That'll save you another 10pts too, though you cant use it anywhere.  Unless there's an ugrade available for your cruisers for 10pts (cant remember).

The only worry I have with Dauntless cruisers (and why I like to face them) is the fact they only have 1 shield and 1 turret.  Though I'm not sure about the stats for the enforcer.  Usually carriers have an extra turret.

Try the list out using proxys first, so you dont waste money on a fleet you may not like.  A simple way to do it, is to simply draw a line on a flying base.  This signifies the direction of the ship.  Not visually stunning, but it'll save you from wasting money.


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 Post subject: Imperial Starting fleet
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:08 pm 
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-A Dauntless comes singly in a blister, at ?7 IIRC... The single shield does tend to make them very vulnerable to shooting, so I always have them backed up with something- usually another cruiser or a few Firestorms...
They are quite handy for picking off those irritating single escorts that stay about after you've destroyed the rest of their squadron tho... :D

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